Whistle Down The Wind??- Page 3

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 9:29pm

If I could have gotten my hands on this show, I could have dramaturged this thing into a hit.

I'm not sure I'd trust those duties to someone who has evidently never heard of the difference between the lyrics for a pop single and lyrics in a show-specific context (and I'll hasten to add that the "children's choir" version came first, D.C. tryout in '96), and doesn't seem to understand the characters (it's pretty clear that Amos is trying to be a rebel, but that he doesn't actually love Candy... it's Swallow he's sweet on), but I'd love to hear what else you have in mind.

Updated On: 2/9/15 at 09:29 PM

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 2/9/15 at 11:00pm

I also prefer the children singing it. The lyrics are too simple to be sung by one of the older characters. Not simple in a bad way just clearly written from a child's point of view.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 2/10/15 at 10:20am

I'm not sure I'd trust those duties to someone who has evidently never heard of the difference between the lyrics for a pop single and lyrics in a show-specific context (and I'll hasten to add that the "children's choir" version came first, D.C. tryout in '96), and doesn't seem to understand the characters (it's pretty clear that Amos is trying to be a rebel, but that he doesn't actually love Candy... it's Swallow he's sweet on)

I saw the original production in London, so I do know the difference between what Boyzone did and what was in the show.

Perhaps the children's choir idea wasn't so hot because the DC production bombed. The fact that the show never made it to Broadway, and nobody of importance has tried to bring it to New York in almost 20 years, is a sign that it's not of interest to American producers or audiences.

If Amos is so sweet on Swallow, why is there no dramatization of that in Act 1? No big duet between the two of them. It's shoehorned into Act 2 with a big sign that says "We've pretty much dramatized all of the movie, so now we have to fill time to round out 2 hours." This is one of the problems with the show, Act 1 and Act 2 seem like they are from two different plots.

The character of Swallow is difficult because she's borderline child/adult. Haley Mills was 14 when she played the role. It's obvious Amos is already a man and the relationship is a bit creepy. I'm sure by moving it to the American South, the writers were trying to play up the child bride aspect.

[tourboi]

Posted: 2/10/15 at 2:36pm

A few pages back one poster indicated it hadn't played the west coast on the tour. It did cancel SF, but it did very much play the west coast. I saw it in Sacramento. I remember thinking there was a good show in there somewhere, but every bit of Kenwright's direction was suffocating it. Some of the most inane staging I've ever seen. The choreography for the Overture was just silly.

It's not my favourite ALW score, but I do like much of it. Tire Tracks is totally "English Girls" re-vamped. Truth. But the "Our Kind of Love" thing is a bit of a mixed bag. It wasn't, necessarilly, taken from BEAUTIFUL GAME for LOVE NEVER DIES. it was originally written for PHANTOM 2. When that was initially scrapped the chorus (not verse) was used in BEAUTIFUL GAME. When ALW returned it to the PHANTOM sequel, he removed the song entirely from BEAUTIFUL GAME (now known as THE BOYS IN THE PHOTOGRAPH). I still think that was a mistake, as "Our Kind of Love" is lovely in the piece.

[tazber]

Posted: 2/10/15 at 3:14pm

Thanks for clarifying that tourboi.

I didn't realize it was not written for Beautiful Game.

I'm listening to Tire Tracks now and I can not believe I never caught that it's English Girls.
I've heard both of those cast recordings dozens of times each.

[philly03]

Posted: 2/10/15 at 4:00pm

I remember I wanted to see this tour when it came to Philly in February 2008 (Andrea Ross, Andrew Lloyd Webber's protege at some point was starring as Swallow; she would be replaced, however by Whitney Bashor by the time it got to Philly) and a huge snowstorm hit Wed or Thurs of that week. The tickets were heavily comped and discounted by Philadelphia standards, but I never made it. Love the title song.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/10/15 at 4:53pm

Considering it ran nearly 3 years (I believe,) it's strange how little video there is of the UK cast or anything that shows off the design for those who were asking.

Wiki does have a complete bootleg of the Hal Prince production. I was surprised to find out the racial plot element wasn't a part of but added for the Gale Edwards production.

The Kenwright production it also should be pointed out was made more "family friendly." Notably Annie Christmas, one of the stories The Man tells the children was replaced by a more family friendly "The Gang" with lyrics by Don Black.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/10/15 at 4:55pm

OK, I take that back. Apparently since I last looked, a 20 minute promo piece for the London production was uploaded to youtube. Mainly Jim Steinman and ALW interviews but it does have some clips which give *some* idea of the set, though not the two tiered element really (I also remember, due to the small size of the theatre, the fire near the end was *really* hot.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3iv4ZgUBO4

Updated On: 2/10/15 at 04:55 PM

[Fantod]

Posted: 2/10/15 at 5:06pm

Does anybody have a picture of the marquee at the Martin Beck?

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 2/10/15 at 5:45pm

If Amos is so sweet on Swallow, why is there no dramatization of that in Act 1?

It's evident in their dialogue exchanges in Act One. He's bordering on flirtatious literally every time they talk.

It's obvious Amos is already a man and the relationship is a bit creepy.

While Dean Collinson was a little on the mature side, there's little doubt that the character is a teenager. He refers to being bullied by his father (which a man wouldn't stand for); he idolizes James Dean. There is little reason to confuse the character for anything other than what it is.

I'm sure by moving it to the American South, the writers were trying to play up the child bride aspect.

What the fuck? No. They chose the South, and more specifically the Bible Belt, because it's a place they think that story would have happened were it to take place in the U.S. (Webber originally wanted the parallel to Yorkshire and the mines to be more on the nose; he suggested a town in West Virginia, but Steinman argued for the deep South for a variety of reasons.)

Jesus Christ, if you're this dense, it's a wonder you find dramaturge work at all. This stuff is all evident to anyone who actually saw the London production or even overcame the crappy attempts at Southern accents and listened to the OLC. It's as subtle as a cockroach crawling across a white rug. Clearly you didn't get it, so I'll allow ya wiggle room, but for cryin' out loud, you seem to have gathered nothing, nothing at all, from what you saw, provided you actually saw it.

Updated On: 2/10/15 at 05:45 PM

[Gothampc]

Posted: 2/10/15 at 7:37pm

"Jesus Christ, if you're this dense, it's a wonder you find dramaturge work at all."

People resort to name calling when they don't have anything useful to say. I get it, you're a fangurl of the show. You are the #1 fangurl.

But for anyone else who wants to really discuss the show, the question still stands. If Sparrow and Amos are such an important couple, why don't they have a song in Act 1? They could have ditched all that beginning crap "I Don't Get What I Pray For" "Home By Now" "It Doesn't Get Any Better Than This" and given us an Amos Loves Sparrow song. In fact, we don't get an Amos song until "Tire Tracks" and then nothing again until Act 2. He's there as a plot device, nothing more.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/10/15 at 7:39pm

Not sure they were an important couple, but their definitely was meant to be attraction there.

GDELGI, I love how much you've thought about this musical and reading your posts--but I'm a bit unsure why you took it personal with Gotham... I agree that I felt it was pretty clear--to me--but...

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 2/10/15 at 8:14pm

People resort to name calling when they don't have anything useful to say.

You mean like someone who can't keep the characters' names straight, doesn't seem to know the show even though they claim to have seen it, and keeps talking about how they could do it better when they don't seem to have mastered any of the character relationships or the purpose of a single musical number in context? Yeah. My name calling is the least useful thing. Dense, dense, dense, and I stand by every word of it. For the record, the suggestions are actually pretty useful, but they would benefit from knowing the damn show, or at the very least its source material.

(Sorry, Eric. My bedside manner is not the best, but I'm not asking this person out on a date. They don't have to like me, nor does anyone in this industry. Results will speak for themselves.)

Updated On: 2/10/15 at 08:14 PM

[vassey]

Posted: 2/11/15 at 12:00pm

With regards to the set, there was a discussion back when Kerry Ellis got trapped in the lift in Wicked a few years back.

"The entire stage floor was a big fake tarmac surface, like a motorway. Most of the time it was used just as a floor. During the train tunnel an freeway scenes, the entire floor raised half way up the proscenium, forming a flat elevated stage area above, and another flat area area below. This was used to great effect during the Finale of Act One, when the children were down below with The Man ('Jesus'), and the adults were above, searching for the Killer (also The Man).

"The "Freeway" which was a 12-tonne piece of set cause a great deal of technical problems and injuries. I recall Dean Collinson dislocating his ribs and getting a hernia.
Many of the cast had bruises, scratches etc.

I actually hit my head and cut my arm open on that set whilst having to climb through the railings on it in the final scene. "

And back in 2005, actor Dean Collinson was awarded £7500 for his injuries.

"He said after the hearing he had missed more than 100 shows because of injuries received during the production. He said he had had to pick up a motorbike with a pillion passenger still on the back to avoid them being crushed by a 12-tonne stage set.

He had also "had to push the female lead out of the way of a train that was being pushed towards the audience, giving myself a hernia".In another show, "I fell from a ladder that had had oil used on it to stop it squeaking"."
Updated On: 2/11/15 at 12:00 PM

[tazber]

Posted: 2/11/15 at 12:09pm

And Fantod,

Be sure to report back when you've had a chance to hear whichever version you choose.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Posted: 2/11/15 at 10:00pm

A bit of trivia: "No Matter What," sung by Boyzone, and written by Andrew Lloyd Webber & Jim Steinman for WDTW, is the only musical theater song to crack the top 40 since "One Night in Bangkok" did so in 1985. It reached #35 on the Billboard top 40 and hit #1 on the UK singles chart in 1998.

Other songs from films have become hits since, but none that originated on Broadway or the West End. And while Kinky Boots' "Sex Is in the Heel" was a hit for Cyndi Lauper on the dance/club charts, it didn't cross over.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/11/15 at 10:23pm

Well in the US. The UK has had a few others, didn't it? That guy from another UK boyband, Blue, ha a top 5 I think in the UK with I Believe My Heart from Woman in White...

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 2/11/15 at 10:35pm

More than that, "No Matter What" went to #1 in 17 other countries.

[chernjam]

Posted: 2/22/15 at 3:15am

Enjoying reading all this. I'll never forget when ALW and Jim Steinman were on 95.5 WPLJ (here in NYC) to preview "A Kiss is a Terrible Thing To Waste" on the morning show. They played the workshop version you can hear on the ALW definitive collection. I remember thinking at the time how amazing the song was, so different from ALW (definitely sounded like something Steinman would've written and ALW saying that he was trying to mimic Jim's style a bit or something like that -- gosh it was 20 years ago!)

Anyway that was leading up to the DC premiere. Which we know what happened and then it kind of went away till Gale Edwards prodcution. And again they previewed the music at ALW's 50th anniversary. And from Bonnie Tyler's "Tire Tracks" the title song, The Vaults of Heaven - and then No Matter What - I thought how the heck is this not going to be a monster hit. Which it never was.

My opinion - this was written right after Sunset and was opening just as Sunset shuttered on both sides of the Atlantic at the same time. The Really Useful Group was a complete mess. And ALW being a control freak, in the middle of all this and wanting a hit rather than just letting the creative process flow really hampered it. He has said in some interview that he wishes he had stuck with Hal Prince and worked on it more. And having heard a bootleg of DC - much of the score was the same as the London version - but with a more of a rock/edgier sound to it.

I seriously hope this gets a real re-thinking/revision. The story is fascinating and has tremendous potential in the right directors hands. Bill Kenwright is definitely not that man.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 2/22/15 at 5:08am

Enjoying reading all this. I'll never forget when ALW and Jim Steinman were on 95.5 WPLJ (here in NYC) to preview "A Kiss is a Terrible Thing To Waste" on the morning show. They played the workshop version you can hear on the ALW definitive collection.

Jim posted that demo at his website; it seems to have been removed recently, but if you're one of those people who just has to buy the song, you can find it here: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/kiss-is-terrible-thing-to/id296886013?i=296886111&ign-mpt=uo%3D5. Not bad for a demo, as they remarked on WPLJ. Full orchestra, the best of Steinman's session crew, and guitar overdubs from Brian May. If nothing else, it makes a terrific record.

My opinion - this was written right after Sunset and was opening just as Sunset shuttered on both sides of the Atlantic at the same time. The Really Useful Group was a complete mess. And ALW being a control freak, in the middle of all this and wanting a hit rather than just letting the creative process flow really hampered it. He has said in some interview that he wishes he had stuck with Hal Prince and worked on it more. And having heard a bootleg of DC - much of the score was the same as the London version - but with a more of a rock/edgier sound to it.

I honestly feel a more conventional rock sound came into the London version as opposed to being present in D.C., which had a lot more folky elements bordering on country. I assume massaging most of it into rock made the Steinman/Webber power ballads sit more easily alongside the rest of the score, but I still feel losing a lot of what D.C. did musically (except for "Spider" -- just... ew) was a misstep.

That aside, your opinion seems to me to be right on the money. I find it funny, however, that Webber now wishes he had stuck with Hal Prince, because, to hear Steinman tell it, Webber second-guessed him all the way through the tryout. Quoting an interview: "I remember meeting with Andrew at Trump Tower later and he was indecisive about the whole thing. One week he would say, 'Jim, I just don't know, should Hal Prince direct this or not? He's getting on in years.' Hal was in his 50s then. The next week, he would say the same thing, only Hal is now in his 60s. In three weeks or so, Hal had aged three decades in that conversation." Apparently Steinman himself had a low opinion of Hal's work methods: "Hal only directs from 10 to 2. Then he has to get home to see the soaps." When the show opened in D.C. to hatchet-job reviews, Steinman recalls, "I woke up, went to the theater, ready to start the rewriting. The stage manager said that Andrew was gone and Hal's off skiing. I stayed in Washington for two weeks, hoping to get cracking on it. But they were gone."

(Prince, for his part, points part of the blame at Steinman in Harold Prince and the American Musical Theatre: "It was the wrong time for me and Andrew to be working together. We weren't in sync on this, and there was no joy in the collaborative process. Jim Steinman may have been the reason. Andrew had brought in Steinman, a successful rock and roll composer, in the belief that Jim would move him into the area of more current musical taste. There is certainly nothing wrong with that, but from the word go the working chemistry among the three of us was bad. Jim is talented, but he drove me crazy with perorations about what needed to be done, and then didn't do anything. Lots of thoughtful and articulate talk, but not enough action.")

[chewy5000]

Posted: 2/22/15 at 7:41am

g.d.e.l.g.i., I'm trying to work out what would be so offensive about your concept, and I've come up with two theories:
A, make some of the characters bisexual, or
B, have Sondheim rewrite the score.
Am I close?

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 2/22/15 at 6:08pm

Not even remotely, but thanks for playing, chewy. It's not offensive, per se; it's just that a certain poster I blocked accuses me of using this particular conceit often.

[ZiggyCringe]

Posted: 2/22/15 at 7:14pm

I would give blood to see this show.

First of all, this is NOT an Andrew Lloyd Webber show, it's a Jim Steinman show.

And Hal Prince f&cdked up the American production?

Its a fascinating concept, with the best composer/lyricist around (Steinman, not Webber), that closed in Washington.

It apparently tours in the UK occasionally, so I'm signing up.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 2/22/15 at 7:47pm

Steinman's a big part of what makes the show work, but diminishing Webber's contribution is, in my view, a mistake.

[chernjam]

Posted: 2/24/15 at 1:44am

g.d.e.l.g.i. - thanks for posting that about Steinman's perspective on everything. I do remember reading that after the reviews ALW bailed, Hal had bailed and that Jim was there not getting the memo that Broadway had been scrapped yet. But never heard that tid-bit about Prince throwing Steinman under the bus.

The comment that this is "Steinman's" show and not ALW's really doesn't make sense to me. ALW's score is really amazing - especially here. In all honesty, not to pick on Steinman, I didn't think his lyrics here made sense often times or just repetitive "A kiss is a terrible thing to waste
A kiss is a terrible thing to waste
It's something that's always been so
A kiss is a terrible thing to waste
A kiss is a terrible thing to waste

The story being what it is - the possible Christ figure/redemptive nature/faith story - it really seems more up Tim Rice's alley. Could have really been edgy. Rice - ALW and Hal Prince - could've really been amazing.

Still hoping ALW will get some new life in this. You really need a professional cast to pull off the premise