"Black actors in white roles"- Page 2

[KnewItWhenIWasInFron]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 12:48pm

Hellob said: "KnewItWhenIWasInFron said: "That's not an "article." It's a trolling post. You probably wrote it. And pretty much everyone with a brain can agree it's ridiculous.

 

"

He's a 17-18 year old kid FFS. At least he's trying to discuss something, you don't have to tell him he's stupid. That's seriously messed up.

 

"

I have no idea how old he is and, in any case, that has no effect on the fact that color-conscious casting is widely accepted and the notion of "white roles" is offensive (even if the thread title has been altered to try to make it less so).

Updated On: 5/18/16 at 12:48 PM

[backwoodsbarbie]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 1:10pm

I agree that unless race is a plot point, skin color shouldn't matter in casting. That being said, directors have certain aesthetics that they look for. It's why the Rockettes have to be at least 5'6" and we'll never see a plus sized Elle Woods.

[BobBenson]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 3:58pm

backwoodsbarbie said: "I agree that unless race is a plot point, skin color shouldn't matter in casting. That being said, directors have certain aesthetics that they look for. It's why the Rockettes have to be at least 5'6" and we'll never see a plus sized Elle Woods.

 

"

Ummmm, just do a Google search and you will see one or two Elle Woods who are not similar in body shape to Reese Witherspoon or Laura Bell Bundy or Kristin Chenoweth. So never say never, brah!

[Ranger Tom]

Posted: 5/18/16 at 7:36pm

¿Macavity? said: "Call_me_jorge said: "I was wondering if a black elder price or Cunningham could work."

I don't think it would be as funny, and that's kind of the point of the show, to be funny I mean. Part of the humor, I thought, was that they stood out so much by being Mormon, and being white. That may just be how I interpreted it though."

True - the joke/entertainment is how Mormon they are and part of that is how white they are.  Personally, I don't have a problem with non-white Dolly Levi, Sweeney Todd, Elphiba/Galinda, Cinderella, Oscar/Felix, etc. They are fictional characters.  I do have issue when non-fictional characters are cast against race.  Hamilton is fine - it's a gimmick and it has worked.  Fishburne as Henry II in Lion in Winter, Lesley Uggams in Gypsy, in my humble opinion, didn't work.  Wasn't impressed with the idea of the white actor playing Dr. King at Ohio University either.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 12:23am

Plot is certainly one issue, but not the only one.

I don't agree with Ranger Tom's drawing of the line at non-fictional characters. (Why only mirror the original skin color? Why not height, hair color, and vocal range? In most such plays, it would be ridiculous to insist on a clone of the original person, when the audience may not know what s/he looked like anyway.)

But the style of the show also may matter, depending on the story being told. Knowing the history, I might find a mixed race, romantic couple very distracting in a highly representational play set in certain places and periods in the past.

I'll use THE MUSIC MAN as an example because the issue actually arose when we did it at my high school. A mixed-race Harold and Marion would have been shocking in the South of 1971, and the issue of how such a thing was even possible in early 20th century Iowa would have overwhelmed the intended themes of the show. (Nowadays I would argue we should not have been doing a show in which the leads weren't available to everyone talented enough to play them.)

On the other hand, I don't think most of us would even notice a black/white romantic couple in more modern musicals or more presentational musicals (including THREEPENNY OPERA), just as most of us accept such couplings on TV shows. Why shouldn't Norm Lewis play Sweeney, whether or not Mrs. Lovett is played by a black actress?

[Dave19]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 10:06am

backwoodsbarbie said: "I agree that unless race is a plot point, skin color shouldn't matter in casting. That being said, directors have certain aesthetics that they look for. It's why the Rockettes have to be at least 5'6" and we'll never see a plus sized Elle Woods.

 

"

Everything should matter in casting.

Elle Woods' or Christine in Phantom's weight is not a plot point, but many casting directors think that the role does not benefit from an overweight actress. And this goes for every characteristic.

From the way the way eyes are placed, posture, eradiation, to the tone of voice, weight, age, type, origin, look, anything you can imagine. It's all about aesthetics and there will always be minorities that feel excluded.

If casting directors prefer any person above another for any reason, there is no need to feel bad. You can't force someone to change their preference. 

People get rejected for every imaginable little detail for as long as showbusiness exists.

If we cast a fat Christine or an extremely tiny Danny Zuko, or a 50 year old Elle Woods, is that some kind of victory for mankind? Because then certain minorities feel better? That is not what casting is about. Is it wrong to want to make the actress look younger? Is it rude not to show her naturality? Now, in the case of black people, what is it about? Is it about the fact that you like to see more black actors work (and dressed/changed as anything, just like everyone else)? Or is it that you just love to see characters changed to black?

If it is the latter, you have a problem.

Because that is kind of racist.

If a casting director rejects someone for Christine, because he/she prefers someone else's lips, eyes, tone, poise, aura or origin for Christine that is not racist.

More often than not, being black comes with more characteristics than just being black and there is nothing wrong with that.

Do you want to acknowledge black as a characteristic, like we do with everything in life, or do you want to make it disappear.

 

 

Updated On: 5/19/16 at 10:06 AM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 10:30am

Dave 19, you are raising some good points.  But just as casting on type in terms of a broad swath of physical characteristics often has dramaturgical value, casting against a preconceived type can also sometimes have  dramaturgical value.  And casting for an essence of character without regard to going for or against a preconceived physical type can well have dramaturgical value as well.  There's nothing racist or looksist about any of these casting strategies.  They all are attempts to create a vision for a show.

And - newsflash! - shows come in all sorts of visions. 

 

Updated On: 5/19/16 at 10:30 AM

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 11:59am

"From the way the way eyes are placed, posture, eradiation..."

God knows how many casting directors choose actresses based on their radiating  powers, but I for one wish they'd stop it already.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 5/19/16 at 12:16pm

^

De Witt: [about Eve] It wasn't a reading. It was a performance. Brilliant, vivid, something made of music and fire.
Margo: How nice.
De Witt: In time, she'll be what you are.
Margo: A mass of music and fire.