Bette Midler: Why it took 50 years to return to Broadway ... and my 'unforgettable' visit with Carol Channing- Page 2

[Valentina3]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 9:15am

After Eight said: ""I wonder if The New World Order has decided that we will never get a Mame revival?"

 

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that we will never get a new musical like Mame, one with music that's actually musical, and which would fill people with good cheer. (Yeah, believe it or not, once upon a time musicals were actually like that!) For as we know all too well, nowadays, that's strictly a no-no. Just listen to the scores --- if you dare --- to the likes of Come From Away, Dear Evan Hansen, Groundhog Day, Fun Home, etc., etc. 

Hear anything like Mame in these?"

A8, I really can't tell if you're trolling or not. For every Fun Home, we got a Gentlemen's Guide To Love & Murder. Every season in the last decade has had either a great revival of musical comedy, or a new musical with a "more traditional musical" sound, if not both.

And no, stop pushing the agenda that there's a hidden deep state within theater. Authors are writing what they want to. Writing comedy is not easy, and if the material is not good, why should I be forced to watch it? If they want to write more serious musicals, I'm very much open to it as long as it is good. And so is "the public". I'm sorry you feel cheated out of comedy and fluff theater, but there's no one out there trying to sabotage theater (well, except maybe Davenport but that's a whole another story).

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 9:31am

After Eight said: ""I wonder if The New World Order has decided that we will never get a Mame revival?"

 

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that we will never get a new musical like Mame, one with music that's actually musical, and which would fill people with good cheer. (Yeah, believe it or not, once upon a time musicals were actually like that!) For as we know all too well, nowadays, that's strictly a no-no. Just listen to the scores --- if you dare --- to the likes of Come From Away, Dear Evan Hansen, Groundhog Day, Fun Home, etc., etc. 

Hear anything like Mame in these?
"

You realize that there were serious musicals in the era of Mame and Hello Dolly! right? West Side Story, Carousel, Gypsy, South Pacific, Fiddler on  the Roof, all deal with very serious themes. I'm sorry if your idea of a musical is so restricted to musical comedy, but if that's what your tastes run to then Book of Mormon, Something Rotten, Kinky Boots, and the like all had/have successful runs. 

 

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 10:00am

"You realize that there were serious musicals in the era of Mame and Hello Dolly! right? West Side Story, Carousel, Gypsy, South Pacific, Fiddler on  the Roof, all deal with very serious themes."

Thanks for letting me know, because I never heard of those titles, right?

 

"Book of Mormon, Something Rotten, Kinky Boots, and the like all had/have successful runs. "

 

Please. PLEASE! These are no Hello, Dolly! or Mame.

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 10:21am

 "Authors are writing what they want to."

Sorry to be so harsh, but you really have to stop being so naive. Authors are not likely to write what the so-called arbiters of "culture" deem to be unacceptable, or out of step with they think should be presented on our stages. And even if authors wanted to and did write that, producers would very much be reluctant to present anything that they know the elite and agenda crowd, ---those who confer fame, prestige, awards, and success --- are going to heap with scorn, ridicule, and contempt.

Again, Look around, and see how many NEW Hello, Dolly!s and Mames we have had in the last 40+ years.

The proof is in the pudding.

"Writing comedy is not easy," 

I agree. But somehow --- SOMEHOW --- people like Neil Simon, Noel Coward, John van Druten, Norman Krasna, F. Hugh Herbert, Jean Kerr, etc, managed to do it again and again. But you see, then, the critics were receptive to their work. What are today's "critics" receptive to? Again, look around --- if you dare.

 

[Valentina3]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 10:29am

Give me a examples of shows which were comparable to the works of Neil Simon, Noel Coward, John van Druten, Norman Krasna, F. Hugh Herbert, and Jean Kerr - and were universally panned by critics. I say comparable since you seem to intent on wanting to compare everything to Hello, Dolly! or Mame. Nothing else is like Hello, Dolly! which is what makes it what it is.

I agree I'm presenting a naive view with "they write what they want to write", but I have to become focused on this since you're being aggressively skeptical - to the point of doing the exact same thing. The same critics have raved about this revival, so it's not like they have it in for musical comedy. 

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 10:30am

Valentina3 wrote:

"I'm sorry you feel cheated out of comedy and fluff theater."

You're sorry I FEEL cheated? Well, I have news for you. If I feel cheated, it's because I've BEEN cheated. WE'VE been cheated. Two generations of theatregoers have been cheated.

 

But thank you very much for your heartfelt sympathy. 

[Valentina3]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 10:53am

Do you ever have real responses with facts, instead of latching onto the emotional angle?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 11:17am

You haven't been cheated out of anything.  Do you really think someone wrote something comparable to Hello, Dolly (or any magical touchstone show you'd like to use) and that it was shunned? 

 

Things change, things ALWAYS change....change is good.  Me?  I'd prefer a thought provoking musical any day to another bit of mindless fluff. (If I had to chose.)   

[green waver]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 12:19pm

 Poison Ivy, I agree with your point. I'll go a step further and say that I'm uncomfortable with this artificial division of musicals into "musical theater" and "musical comedy." The truly great shows have elements of both. Take Sweeney Todd- who on this board DIDN'T laugh their asses off at "A Little Priest"? More recently, "Changing My Major" from Fun Home was equally hilarious. That's what superior writing should provide.

[Valentina3]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 12:23pm

Yep. Good comedy can't exist without drama, and good drama cannot exist with comedy. However, there are certainly broader "main genres" which shows can be divided into. Television and movies have done it for the longest time, I don't see anything wrong with applying that to theater.

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 12:59pm

Take Sweeney Todd- "

You take it, please. Take it away for good.

"who on this board DIDN'T laugh their asses off at "A Little Priest"?

Me. I was repelled by it.

"More recently, "Changing My Major" from Fun Home was equally hilarious."

To you, perhaps. Not to me. I loathed it.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 1:13pm

After Eight said: "Take Sweeney Todd- "

You take it, please. Take it away for good.

"who on this board DIDN'T laugh their asses off at "A Little Priest"?

Me. I was repelled by it.

"More recently, "Changing My Major" from Fun Home was equally hilarious."

To you, perhaps. Not to me. I loathed it.

 

"

You sound like a bundle of fun.

 

[After Eight]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 1:44pm

"change is good."

Good change is good. Bad change is bad. 

 

"You haven't been cheated out of anything."

Oh, yes I have. WE have. Cheated out of more than one can say. Those who didn't attend theatre in the '60s and earlier don't know what they've been cheated of, and frankly, it's just as well that they don't. But I DID attend theatre then, and I DO know. So it's not for anyone who has no basis of comparison to tell someone who does what the latter has or has not been cheated of.

I won't go into the details of all that we've been cheated of, but I'll point out one vital thing: an état d'esprit on the part of the theatregoers, one that one wasn't even aware of at the time. That état d'esprit represented a tacit bond between creator and audience such that it would never even dawn on someone attending a musical that he/she could --- much less would --- be subjected to lyrics about people being s---t, f---g frogs, or exploring someone's ass in Levi's (all cheered by the "arbiters" of "culture," by the way). Well, we all know how we take things for granted until we suddenly lose them. That's when we come to realize just how lucky we were before, and how great was the loss suffered. Being cheated of that état d'esprit was an indescribable loss. I know, because I experienced it. So please, no arrogant, presumptuous lectures on the part of those who didn't.

[Kad]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 1:48pm

I'm tired of these After Eight re-runs.

[carnzee]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 1:59pm

After Eight said: " "Authors are writing what they want to."

Sorry to be so harsh, but you really have to stop being so naive. Authors are not likely to write what the so-called arbiters of "culture" deem to be unacceptable, or out of step with they think should be presented on our stages. And even if authors wanted to and did write that, producers would very much be reluctant to present anything that they know the elite and agenda crowd, ---those who confer fame, prestige, awards, and success --- are going to heap with scorn, ridicule, and contempt.

Again, Look around, and see how many NEW Hello, Dolly!s and Mames we have had in the last 40+ years.

The proof is in the pudding.

"Writing comedy is not easy," 

I agree. But somehow --- SOMEHOW --- people like Neil Simon, Noel Coward, John van Druten, Norman Krasna, F. Hugh Herbert, Jean Kerr, etc, managed to do it again and again. But you see, then, the critics were receptive to their work. What are today's "critics" receptive to? Again, look around --- if you dare.

 

As I pointed out above, today's critics have adored this production of Dolly! and also Gentleman's Guide, which you loved, and hated the Stephen Karam Cherry Orchard, which you hated as well. But this doesn't fit your narrative. 

 

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 2:05pm

Y'all can do what you want, but there's no point in arguing with After Eight about any of this. For years now, AE has derailed threads with the same complaints- pointing out the Hello, Dolly! got good reviews isn't going to stop it. 

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 2:39pm

An incomplete list of hailed new musical comedies from the last 25 years:

CRAZY FOR YOU

MY FAVORITE YEAR

BEAUTY AND THE BEAST

VICTOR/ VICTORIA

STEEL PIER

THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL

THE LION KING

HIGH SOCIETY

THE FULL MONTY

THE PRODUCERS

URINETOWN

MAMMA MIA

THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE

HAIRSPRAY

AVENUE Q

THE BOY FROM OZ

DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS

SPAMALOT

THE 25TH ANNUAL PUTNAM COUNTY SPELLING BEE

THE DROWSY CHAPERONE

CURTAINS

LEGALLY BLONDE

XANADU

IN THE HEIGHTS

BILLY ELLIOTT

SHREK THE MUSICAL

9 TO 5

ELF

PRISCILLA QUEEN OF THE DESERT

THE BOOK OF MORMON

SISTER ACT

NEWSIES

ONE MAN TWO GUVNORS

BRING IT ON

KINKY BOOTS

MATILDA

BIG FISH

A GENTELMAN'S GUIDE TO LOVE AND MURDER

BEAUTIFUL

ALADDIN

BULLETS OVER BROADWAY

AN AMERICAN IN PARIS

SOMETHING ROTTEN

ON YOUR FEET

SCHOOL OF ROCK

WAITRESS

[carnzee]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 2:44pm

Just curious, which show had a lyric about "exploring someone's ass in Levis?"

[Kad]

Posted: 5/23/17 at 3:44pm

Fun Home, which for whatever reason is After Eight's go-to symbol of all that it is wrong with the world.