Sutton Foster statement - Page 2

Posted: 4/21/21 at 1:30pm

GiantsInTheSky2 said: "The same people praising or defending Sutton Foster in this moment are the same people criticizing Karen Olivo for actually saying something... The implicit bias is not lost on me."

Sutton Ross said: "Only men would demand that a woman carry this entire thing and no one else needs to say anything."

Supporting Sutton Foster is racist; not supporting Sutton Foster is sexist.

Updated On: 4/21/21 at 01:30 PM

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 4/21/21 at 1:39pm

ctorres23 said: "GiantsInTheSky2 said: "The same people praising or defending Sutton Foster in this moment are the same people criticizing Karen Olivo for actually saying something... The implicit bias is not lost on me."

Sutton Ross said: "Only men would demand that a woman carry this entire thing and no one else needs to say anything."

Supporting Sutton is racist; not supporting Sutton is sexist."

With that last comment, were you talking about Sutton Foster or Sutton Ross?

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 11:07am

ctorres23 said: "GiantsInTheSky2 said: "The same people praising or defending Sutton Foster in this moment are the same people criticizing Karen Olivo for actually saying something... The implicit bias is not lost on me."

Sutton Ross said: "Only men would demand that a woman carry this entire thing and no one else needs to say anything."

Supporting Sutton Foster is racist; not supporting Sutton Foster issexist."

Is she STILL involved with Music Man? Unbelievable. How many more weeks until she drops out? 

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 11:23am

Whew baby some of us need to get our priorities straight here. Sutton Foster did something, and we found out about it afterwards. And you find this...problematic?? How? Most action that leads to tangible results in these situations happens privately. That’s actually how abusers get taken down. Not by making self-congratulating declarations about integrity on social media.

The dichotomy of the action Foster has taken vs Olivo is fascinating to me. What tangible results come from Olivo quitting a show she didn’t care much about, that by their own admission was a “paycheck”? It makes her look rebellious; meanwhile when you step away from an industry do you not also give up any power you have to influence that industry from within? To me, she’s said “I’m out..go figure this out and I’ll come back once y’all have done the work.” And hey...that’s totally fine if it’s what feels right for them! I don’t think the responsibility for change should have to fall squarely on ever single person of color in this industry. If that’s what they need for their mental health then Karen should do just that. But I don’t think it’s heroic. She’s peace-ing out while others will stick to it and fight.

Foster, on the other hand, could have some power by dropping out of the Music Man...but I think we’re giving her TOO much power. Jackman is what got this show green lit. Foster could up and leave and it’s create some havoc but they’d find someone else and move forward without consequence. That’s show biz. In my mind she did the best should could in that scenario—threaten to leave while sticking around means “I’m here and will hold you accountable if you **** up.” What more do people want from her? Perhaps she even tried to team up with Jackman to threaten to leave together and he declined. We don’t know. But her making a statement on social media—like most statements on social media—is empty performance. And we need to stop celebrating platitudes and declarations of social media and recognize the value of quieter action with tangible results. Again, most abuses of power are destroyed by a foundation of those actions. Not people who have never worked with them making social media declarations.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 11:39am

They both need to drop out and be replaced by POC. Take a stand against Rudin and white supremacy in the theatre. Scrap the creatives as well and start over.

Posted: 4/22/21 at 11:39am

BroadwayGirl107 said: "Whew baby some of us need to get our priorities straight here. Sutton Foster did something, and we found out about it afterwards. And you find this...problematic??"

One way to show the world you're better than everyone else is to never be satisfied with others' actions, no matter what. I think that's the psychology that's at play here.

Updated On: 4/22/21 at 11:39 AM

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 11:56am

ctorres23 said: "BroadwayGirl107 said: "Whew baby some of us need to get our priorities straight here. Sutton Foster did something, and we found out about it afterwards. And you find this...problematic??" One way to show the world you're better than everyone else is to never be satisfied with others' actions, no matter what. I think that's the psychology that's at play here."

 

BINGO. 

 

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 11:59am

Not satisfied.
I’ll say it again - they both need to drop out and be replaced by POC. Take a stand against Rudin and white supremacy in the theatre. Scrap the creative team as well and start over.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 12:05pm

unclevictor said: "Not satisfied.
I’ll say it again - they both need to drop out and be replaced by POC. Take a stand against Rudin and white supremacy in the theatre. Scrap the creative team as well and start over. "

This literally makes no sense. This production is only happening because of Jackman and who he chose as his costar. It’s not like they were like “We want to do the Music Man, who can we cast?” Productions like this happen because people like Jackman talk about roles they want to play and find the team to make it happen. Are Jackman and Foster never supposed to work again? Lol. 
 

This production can exist...AND we can actively demand an increase of BIPOC voices in theater. This all or nothing scarcity mentality you’re suggesting has no real life application to tangible, fundamental progress. 

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 12:07pm

It literally does make sense and can be done.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 12:16pm

Nope. Casting is complete and they are moving on from this drama. The Music Man will proceed later this year and will be a big fat hit. 

Deal with it. 

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 12:25pm

unclevictor said: "It literally does make sense and can be done."

So every time a white star gets a production green lit because of the amount of people their name will bring in, they should turn to the producers and go “Nevermind, I’m just not going to work ever again, go cast a person of color instead”? Lol, this, again, makes no sense and sounds like it’s coming from someone with zero sense of how businesses work. If we don’t approach change from the economic reality of the business and an understanding of why things ACTUALLY occur, we’ll keep running around in a little fantasy hamster wheel, getting nothing done. You’re welcome to stay there if you want while the rest of us work on tangible results. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 12:27pm

Brilliant statement. 100%

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 12:39pm

Yeah you have to think how many people will benefit from this show. Theater staff, production, etc. It’s a giant machine and the industry needs it right now. Foster isn’t to blame. So chill.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 12:46pm

BroadwayGirl107 said: "unclevictor said: "It literally does make sense and can be done."

So every time a white star gets a production green lit because of the amount of people their name will bring in, they should turn to the producers and go “Nevermind, I’m just not going to work ever again, go cast a person of color instead”?

YES, absolutely! The pendulum has to swing in the other direction. It’s going to be uncomfortable and people like you with little to no empathy will complain how unfair it is and it’s wrong and blah blah blaaaah, sit down. POC have had it be unfair for hundreds of years. Let that sink in.
You’re welcome to stay there if you want while the rest of us work on tangible results.

You’re not working on tangible results, you’re just complaining. 

 

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 12:55pm

unclevictor said: "BroadwayGirl107 said: "unclevictor said: "It literally does make sense and can be done."

So every time a white star gets a production green lit because of the amount of people their name will bring in, they should turn to the producers and go “Nevermind, I’m just not going to work ever again, go cast a person of color instead”?

YES, absolutely! The pendulum has to swing in the other direction. It’s going to be uncomfortable and people like you with little to no empathy will complain how unfair it is and it’s wrong and blah blah blaaaah, sit down. POC have had it be unfair for hundreds of years. Let that sink in.
You’re welcome to stay there if you want while the rest of us work on tangible results.

You’re not working on tangible results, you’re just complaining.

"

This is actual delusion—that all white actors should just fully stop working to make space for actors of color is again: rooted in a scarcity mindset that helps no one and is exactly what kills opportunities for people of color, and fundamentally divorced from the economic reality of the business. This is not activism. Do better. 

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 1:00pm

BroadwayGirl107 said: "unclevictor said: "BroadwayGirl107 said: "unclevictor said: "It literally does make sense and can be done."

So every time a white star gets a production green lit because of the amount of people their name will bring in, they should turn to the producers and go “Nevermind, I’m just not going to work ever again, go cast a person of color instead”?

YES, absolutely! The pendulum has to swing in the other direction. It’s going to be uncomfortable and people like you with little to no empathy will complain how unfair it is and it’s wrong and blah blah blaaaah, sit down. POC have had it be unfair for hundreds of years. Let that sink in.
You’re welcome to stay there if you want while the rest of us work on tangible results.

You’re not working on tangible results, you’re just complaining.

"

This is actual delusion—that all white actors should just fully stop working to make space for actors of color is again: rooted in a scarcity mindset that helps no one and is exactly what kills opportunities for people of color, and fundamentally divorcedfrom the economic reality of the business. This is not activism.Do better."

It’s not delusional. YOU do better. Stop being part of the white supremacy problem.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 1:04pm

I’d say 95% of my POC friends were working in the industry before the shut down. So, like I said, if you want to talk about about behind the table sure. That could use some work. We could use more POC in casting, etc.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 1:07pm

It's so odd that a person (Uncle Victor) who has "worked on Broadway for FORTY FIVE YEARS", which would make you about 70 years old doesn't understand that putting a huge star in a Broadway show is good for everyone involved in the show. Hmm.....

You sound about 15 years old, which you most likely are. And that's okay. You don't know anything about how commercial shows work. But, recasting a show that has been cast for two years now just because you think that is supposed to happen is beyond delusional. 

Updated On: 4/22/21 at 01:07 PM

[darquegk]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 1:08pm

While I don’t at all agree with UncleVictor stating that for equity the arts should become POC exclusive, he’s far from the first person to suggest that removing whiteness from the arts is the goal.

Amiri Baraka’s editorial preface to Dutchman, from which the erroneous misquotation “kill whitey” was born, suggests the same thing. And just about every theater university student will read Dutchman and read the preface. So while I may not agree with the answer, I know UncleVictor isn’t a crackpot, just ideologically passionate.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 1:12pm

darquegk said: "While I don’t at all agree with UncleVictor stating that for equity the arts should become POC exclusive, he’s far from the first person to suggest that removing whiteness from the arts is the goal.

Amiri Baraka’s editorial preface to Dutchman, from which the erroneous misquotation “kill whitey” was born, suggests the same thing. And just about every theater university student will read Dutchman and read the preface. So while I may not agree with the answer, I know UncleVictor isn’t a crackpot, just ideologically passionate."

Thank you! 

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 2:35pm

darquegk said: "While I don’t at all agree with UncleVictor stating that for equity the arts should become POC exclusive, he’s far from the first person to suggest that removing whiteness from the arts is the goal.

Amiri Baraka’s editorial preface to Dutchman, from which the erroneous misquotation “kill whitey” was born, suggests the same thing. And just about every theater university student will read Dutchman and read the preface. So while I may not agree with the answer, I know UncleVictor isn’t a crackpot, just ideologically passionate."

Idealogically passionate folks have fundamentally flawed solutions all the time. Not because their passion and feels aren’t real and 100% valid, but trauma and emotion blind is from logical solutions to real world problems. I’ve been guilty of this myself. 
 

Suggesting that arts become BIPOC exclusive and that white folks turn down any opportunity for historically oppressed people is using the same tools of the oppressor to fix a problem. If deliberate exclusion of certain voices and invalidating stories of a certain People was the cause, it cannot ALSO be the solution. 
 

Again, there is enough room for all is us. Scarcity mindsets are another tool of oppressors to get those of us at the bottom fighting with each other instead of focusing on real solutions to real problems. There is a desperate and real need to push for underrepresented voices in the theater community. It doesn’t have to come at the cost of others. 

[Dolly80]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 2:42pm

unclevictor said: "Not satisfied.
I’ll say it again - they both need to drop out and be replaced by POC. Take a stand against Rudin and white supremacy in the theatre. Scrap the creative team as well and start over. "

The most idiotic thing I’ve read for ages. 
Get a grip. Fire you STAR performers and replace with POC to tick a box ? And then not sel enough tickets because they aren’t Hugh and Sutton and it closes.

 

Nice one. 

[JasonC3]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 2:42pm

unclevictor said: "They both need to drop out and be replaced by POC. Take a stand against Rudin and white supremacy in the theatre. Scrap the creatives as well and start over."

Quite the fantasy world you live in.

[Dolly80]

Posted: 4/22/21 at 2:51pm

Fire all white actors and replace with POC!!!

End white supremacy!!!