The book problems of WICKED

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 2:48pm

Yeah, I know. Another WICKED thread. Lotsa spoilers here too.

A week after seeing it in its last preview performance, I've been thinking about exactly why this highly-anticipated show was such a dissapointment to me. Even forgetting the score, so much SHOULD have worked with this show. The book is very strong and complex (I confess to not having read the novel), and the actors are uniformmly excellent given what they have to work with. But the book has MAJOR lapses in continuity and tone. Here's my take on what went wrong, and what I would have done to improve matters.

Problem # 1: Elphelba stars off as something strangely colorless. Idina might as well have a flashing light over her head reading VICTIM. She's glum and unhappy. She'd have the audience much more on her side IMHO if she had a bit of a scrappy, maybe even sarcastic protective shell, the way a lot of lonely kids do. There is a touch of it in her line "do I have something in my teeth?" (which the audience loved) Menzel needs all the audience appeal she can get at this point to counterbalance the scene-stealing Chenoweth, and she's let down by the script.

Problem # 2: I never really buy the friendship of Glinda & Elphelba. Most of the time Glinda is nasty to her green roommate, and its only after Glinda gives her the hat (as a mocking gesture) and gets a training wand in return (but not DIRECTLY from her) where she instantly warms to Elpheba and they dance together and boom, they are great buddies. It's too instant. I would have liked a small scene where maybe Glinda uses her popularity to defend Elphelba from shade-throwing schoolmates at the dance - to show the Glinda is on her way to changing 'for good'.

Later, Glinda betrays Elphelba too casually ("Get her through her sister"). Yes, I know Glinda is miffed that she's lost Fyvero, but I would have liked it if the Wizard and Morrioble had subtly threatened or pressured Glinda to reveal Elphelbas Achilles Heel. The Wizard needs to show his menacing side DIRECTLY to the audience through Glinda.

(Another odd problem is though Menzel and Chenoweth both display star power individually, they cancel each other out when together. There is no Nathan-Matthew chemistry between them.)

Problem # 3: THE WIZARD NEVER TELLS ELPHELBA WHY HE HAS TAKEN SPEECH AWAY FROM THE ANIMALS. The fact that he did so in earlier previews ("It's impossible to eat something you've just chatted with") and then had the reason removed is pretty inexplicable.

Problem # 4: The whole point of the witch melting is because Dorothy throws water on the Scarecrow to stop his fire. So we have to assume Elphelba sets her lover on fire so she can be 'killed'. And why does the Scarecow have no 'burn marks' later?

The funny thing is about WICKED - even though I was let down by the show, I still think its heart is in the right place. I don't dislike it the way I do that jimcrack MILLIE. And WICKED seems to resonate with many people - it has a growing fan base. I echo Ken Mandelbaum's take that it may last awhile based on the fact that Broadway needs a new 'family friendly' show, and there are darker elements in WICKED that I welcomed - every good fairy tale needs a healthy jot of terror. Even forgetting the humdrum score, it really could have been MUCH improved in the months prior to its opening.

Updated On: 11/6/03 at 02:48 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 3:16pm

well, master, since i saw it last night i thoughgt i'd chime in here.

#1. i totally agree

#2. i bought the friendship because of the way that glinda was so downtrodden over not getting into the sorcery seminar, "i didn't get my way." i felt that the wand itself was not enough, but when combined with that she's getting what she originally wanted but was denied, then it makes more sense for her to soften towards elphie (yes dammit, that's elphie with a p). maybe i just wanted that to work.

as far as the betrayal, i was deep in that one and felt that she let that slip accidentally. once it popped out, she went ahead and did what glinda always does, tries to get ahead. hurt as she was, i could see it. she had no way of knowing they'd take it as far as they did, which to me shows the evil nature of both the wiz and morrible. but yeah, he could have been a little slimier.

#3. maybe it's beacuse i knew it already but the scene with the professor when he's talking about the animals and how "everyone was so hungry" made it work. ok, i'm reaching. but i think if they'd have said it that the little kids in front of me would have hurled up all the candy they'd been shovelling in their mouths the entire show.

#4. i know it makes no sense, but i wanted her to die, it would have been cleaner. as it was, the whole "death" in silhouette bugged me.

how about that set though? i'm a pushover for a big ol' honkin' buncha pulleys and sprockets and gears...somebody else has to finish that. that was wayyyyyy cool. and idina rocks, so freakin' hard. i was sad that i wasn't closer as i am quite certain that had i sat there stone faced, kristin would have come down into the audience and done "whatever it took" to get a smile outta me, and oh would i have been a hard sell. i was not impressed by butzy. he got better as the show went on, but he was no prize, character-wise or performance-wise. did "wonderful" bother anybody but me? i kept wanting to like it but everytime i started to get into it it stalled and sputtered.

who am i to complain, though, they'll have years to putter around with things. that act one ending is a whiz bang of a hoot. it kinda petered out for me, but as far as spectacle, i think you'll have to go a ways to beat it.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 3:47pm

I actually have no memory, zero, of how the song "Wonderful" even goes. I don't remember anything about Grey's performance of it, either. And I saw it five nights ago. I guess he's still Mr. Cellophane.

I do remember the hooks in Popular and Defying Gravity. The show is like a cd with two hit singles.

[wally]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 4:01pm

ELPHABA
sorry, but it's bugging me :)

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 5:25pm

Problem 1: That attitude was evident in the character until after the party scene, where it logically ended, now that someone, the most popular girl at school, has showed feeling for her

Problem 2: "I would have liked a small scene where maybe Glinda uses her popularity to defend Elphelba from shade-throwing schoolmates at the dance" That's exactly what happens. And while it happened "instantly," it was a good characterization of Glinda. We see that Glinda does have feelings for others, and that she can be strong enough to be seen with the outcast.

for the betrayal thing: Glinda spits this out in the heat of anger, and we see that she can't exactly be trusted. This can be looked at as a reason for Elphaba keeping that whole secret at the end of the show. Plus we see how menacing the Wizard is during wonderful, believe it or not. Elphaba, being such a strong character is actually, for the length of that song, pulled over to the Wizard's side. I think the fact that he was able to ingratiate himself in Elphaba's favor shows just how tricky and clever he is, because Elphaba, unlike Glinda is a strong-willed, independent character. Had we seen this through Glinda, it wouldn't have meant as much, considering Glinda's easy to win over.

Problem 3: I simply looked at this as a form of bigotry in their society. Just like there's some unkown reason for it in our society, they have an unkown reason in theirs. I think Animals, in Oz, were just a minority race that he looked down upon for no good reason, as some do in our society.

Problem 4: I have no explanation for that one, but forgive it due to the magic of the rest of the show. But he doesnt have burn marks in the Wizard of Oz either, does he?

[TxTwoStep]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 5:34pm

this MUST be a complex libretto to have very intellectual minds like yours (no sarcasm there) so engaged. It makes me even more anxious to see it. And i like the look of the photos and video peeks. The design looks wonderful. SO sue me, i also like a Schwartz song every now and again. i'm just hoping it's WICKED good in street parlance, at least from my subjective point of view.

[StateOfJade]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 5:37pm

-DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN WICKED-

Well, the play is only BASED off of the book. They switched a lot of things around.

Like how Elphaba and the Scarecrow both go off together at the end. Not only was that completley random...but that was just a little ridiculous. Wicked's major flaw, I think.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 5:52pm

She's a witch, I guess she can make random things that may seem ridiculous happen, haha.

[BillFinn]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 7:18pm

I wouldn't even say the musical is "based" off of the book. The musical just takes very few concepts and creates its own story.

Keep in mind, the musicalization of Wicked is told through the eyes of an older, wiser Glinda, therefore characterization is allowed to be faulted because it's her version. I'm sure if we told this story through Elphaba's eyes, we could argue that certain events of kindness Galinda showed Elphaba would be showed, but in Glinda's story, Galinda didn't think they were worth of being remembered when telling the story of Elphaba.

The book does a good job showing Glinda's transformation. I suggest reading it.
---------------------------------------
For those of you who have seen the musical:

Glinda doesn't know she faked her death? I heard Elphaba and Glinda agree she'll be supporting her death after it happens, and that explains why Glinda is happy she's dead in No One Mourns the Wicked.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 7:30pm

Ya think? Because there it is in the show's credits: "Based on the novel by Gregory Maguire." This is listed BEFORE Carole Shelley, or Norblecch, or Joel Grey, even. It's the third credit!

If they weren't adapting the novel for the stage, they mighta downplayed that a little.

[newyorkuniq]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 7:49pm

Well I first looked at Wicked from a fun night of theatre stand point and adore it in that aspect. I agree with all of the above. When Elphaba came back after she was supposedly "melted" It just ruined the wizard of oz forever for me...anyone else?

[BillFinn]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 8:24pm

They got idea from Gregory Maguire. They are just crediting him for it. The show and story are two completely different things.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 8:51pm

NYuniq, may I ask why that ruined the Wizard of Oz for you? By the end of Wicked, the last thing I wanted to see was Elphaba die. I don't understand how it could ruin the Wizard of Oz, surely you must've gone into the production realizing you would not be seeing a wicked witch and that you'd be seeing the other end of the story.

Posted: 11/6/03 at 9:42pm

Master, producers of WICKED had approx. $14MM. Apparently they still couldn't get it right. Why should we give them suggestions for making it right gratis--Unless royalty checks being made out to us personally?

I'm being a dog tonight.

Yours for a better Broadway!

Updated On: 11/6/03 at 09:42 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 9:48pm

The novel ruined The Wizard of Oz movie for me because what is successful about the novel is that it gives you the story from a different perspective. When last I watched the movie, I yelled at the TV screen, "The witch was framed! And she had a name!" And if you know that Glinda is the malevolent one, (and the story only works when that is what she is, not this waffling vacillator they have written for Kristen), you start to actually see some malevolence even in Billie Burke's characterization. That's why the novel works, and that's why the book of the show does not.

[BillFinn]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 10:31pm

"Keep tight in them. She wouldn't want them so badly if they weren't as powerful as they are." -Glinda

The quote isn't exact, but does Wicked (the show) explain why Glinda instigated Dorothy to go against the Witch's wishes? Glinda had a hang up because she took her man? Just a thought.

I agree with you tho Namo. The book tried, but did not succeed in keeping with the original story (movie version).

Updated On: 11/6/03 at 10:31 PM

[Gothampc]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 10:46pm

Namo, very good point about Glinda being the malevolent one. If you have ever heard Gregory Maguire in an interview, he is very funny. He says he hated Glinda because she knew Dorothy could just click her heels and go home but instead made her go all through the trouble of going to the Wizard and having to face all that trouble.

[BillFinn]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 11:24pm

-Repeating Message-

Updated On: 11/7/03 at 11:24 PM

[BillFinn]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 11:24pm

I still don't understand why Dorothy had to go through that or what she learned. Didn't she say at the end "If I want to go looking for adventure, I go no further than my own backyard?" How did she get that out of her adventure in Oz? It was so random.

[newyorkuniq]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 11:31pm

When you watch the movie now you think about the back story. Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead just doesnt have such a cheerfull ring once you care about the witch:P It also gives you a diff take on Dorothy and the shoes.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 11/7/03 at 12:08am

I know NYuniq, but you said the fact that Elphaba came back was what ruined it for you.

[JO125]

Posted: 11/7/03 at 12:39am

After seeing the show last night, I am thinking about the Wizard of Oz movie from a totally different perspective, and I must say that I find it very interesting. I quite enjoyed all of the little twists and explanations for events in the movie.

I went into the show aware that the "Wicked witch" was not going to be wicked, and that Glinda was not necessarily good. I was not aware, however, of all of those twists, and that my view of those movie events would completely change after seeing the show.

Now thinking back to the movie, why did Glinda send Dorothy on that journey instead of directly home? Was she possibly setting her up the whole time? I'm just wondering.

[lensman55]

Posted: 11/7/03 at 9:34am

>Problem # 2: I never really buy the friendship of Glinda & >Elphelba. Most of the time Glinda is nasty to her green >roommate, and its only after Glinda gives her the hat (as a >mocking gesture) and gets a training wand in return (but not >DIRECTLY from her) where she instantly warms to Elpheba and >they dance together and boom, they are great buddies. It's too >instant. I would have liked a small scene where maybe Glinda >uses her popularity to defend Elphelba from shade-throwing >schoolmates at the dance - to show the Glinda is on her way to >changing 'for good'.

I have read the book, and frankly Glinda never does defend Elfaba to her friends. Although, after they play a mean prank on Elfaba, Glinda seems to distance herself from them.

>Later, Glinda betrays Elphelba too casually ("Get her through >her sister"). Yes, I know Glinda is miffed that she's lost >Fyvero, but I would have liked it if the Wizard and Morrioble >had subtly threatened or pressured Glinda to reveal Elphelbas >Achilles Heel. The Wizard needs to show his menacing side >DIRECTLY to the audience through Glinda.

I don't remember Glinda working with the Wizard at all in the book. Certainly not to the degree that Glinda betrays Elphelba.

>Problem # 3: THE WIZARD NEVER TELLS ELPHELBA WHY HE HAS TAKEN >SPEECH AWAY FROM THE ANIMALS. The fact that he did so in >earlier previews ("It's impossible to eat something you've >just chatted with") and then had the reason removed is pretty >inexplicable.

Again, I don't think the Wizard takes the speech away from the Animals. (I know there's a section where a vivisectionist teacher offers to damage the brain of a lion kitten in order to show that there is no difference between Animals and animals.)

>Problem # 4: The whole point of the witch melting is because >Dorothy throws water on the Scarecrow to stop his fire. So we >have to assume Elphelba sets her lover on fire so she can >be 'killed'. And why does the Scarecow have no 'burn marks' >later?

OK, they must have changed this to match what we all remember from the movie. In the book, Dorothy claims to have made the journey not to kill the Witch as she promised the Wizard but to beg the Witch for forgivness for the death of her sister. Elphelba lights her broom as a crude torch and takes Dorothy to a tower to rant about everything that's happened up to that point (including the fact they Elphelba couldn't get forgivness for the death of [her] lover.) The broom sets her dress on fire and Dorothy, not wanting another death on her conscience, throws the water at her to put her out.

[lensman55]

Posted: 11/7/03 at 9:37am

>Well, the play is only BASED off of the book. They switched a >lot of things around.

>Like how Elphaba and the Scarecrow both go off together at the >end. Not only was that completley random...but that was just a >little ridiculous. Wicked's major flaw, I think.

Also in the book, it turns out that she believes the Scarecrow is her lover "under cover" so to speak. When he scatters himself over Dorothy and the Lion to protect them from the bees, she freaks realizing that he's just a straw man after all.
(I don't think he or the Tin Man are actually in the climax of the book having been left behind by the monkeys.)