Sweeney Todd-10/26/2005

[twogaab2]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 10:45am

The terms OMG and WTF come to mind. The piece is completely at the mercy of the director's "Concept". The cast slavishly keeps to the "Concept" to the detriment of the piece and their own performances. To her credit Lupone has smoothed out the singing/acting gap that marred her San Francisco performance. Ceveris could be a very fine Todd in a completely different production. If this is anyone's 1st "Todd", I can see them being both confused and board. Jacoby is a wonderful Turpin (if the voice is somewhat higher and brighter than I was used to).

One has to give the cast credit for playing their own instruments (and memorizing the entire score)-but what this has to do with the "concept" is beyond me. The playbill could do well to include some notes from the director on his "Concept"- ("Explain Yourself"!)

People who have worked in the operatic world are used to these "high concept" type of productions, but, for the mostpart, musicals are staged in a more straightforward manner.

Just my opinion, I may be wrong.

Updated On: 10/27/05 at 10:45 AM

[cookie2]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 11:08am

twogaab2, opinions are never wrong!! (unless your opinion is something like "I can eat car engines for breakfast")

Personally, I saw the show on Oct 15 and it was my first Sweeney, and I was not bored or confused at all. In fact I was very much into it.

Loved the actors playing the score!

=0) just my opinion...

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 11:15am

People are obsessed with CONCEPT here! I do not understand. I think it's brilliant.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 11:33am

I think people...ok...I won't talk for 'people', I'll only talk for myself...I think I focus on the 'concept' because it's the 'concept' that gets in the way of my enjoyment of the piece.

The actor-musician conceit is something I have only a small problem with (even though I missed the 'Yums' in 'God, That's Good' in a big way). As has been discussed, the idea is that the instrument is the extension of the character. Rarely did I feel that worked in any sort of meaningful way. It didn't deepen my understanding of any of the characters or the story. It did, deepen my appreciation of the performers which, in the end, is detrimental. In my opinion, one shouldn't leave SWEENEY TODD saying, 'Wow...what a talented cast.' One should leave it disturbed by it's unflinching exploration of the dark heart of human nature. Barring that, one should leave at least thrilled by the gory revenge story presented. I felt neither of those things. The cast is remarkable. No doubt. But my biggest problem with the piece was with the staging and the cuts made to it.

Toby's role seems much less a presence in this version of the story. When he sings 'Not While I'm Around', the impact is lessened because the scenes that established Mrs. Lovett's affection toward him have been removed.

The staging was even more problematic. Because the pantomime that took place during 'Poor Thing' was gone, we are robbed of two things. One is that we don't know who Johanna is when she starts singing 'Green Finch...' (the removal of the Bird Seller scene doesn't help in that regard, either). Two is that the audience is never clued in as to who the the Beggar Woman really is just before she's killed. It completely robs that murder (Sweeney's tragic deed for which he must die) of it's importance in the show. The pouring of the blood to signify the murders was actually quite fun. But that and, even more damagingly, the presentation of the blood-splattered lab coats long before the actual murder takes place, removes any of the suspense from the murders. I also felt the tiny white coffin was a terribly muddled metaphor. It replaced the chair, which does not, in effect, represent innocence or his love for his family or any such thing. It looked cool, but didn't really carry enough meaning to warrant the change.

When all is said and done, I'm very happy I saw this production. The cast is terrific and it made me appreciate the tightness of construction. But, I feel it wasn't really SWEENEY TODD I saw.

Updated On: 10/27/05 at 11:33 AM

[twogaab2]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 11:39am

Nicely said.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 11:40am

But how many times can I use the phrase 'in the end'???

I need to fix that!

[inishmore]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 1:56pm

This 'damn concept'. First I want to make sure that everyone is aware that the actors playing the instruments wasn't just something Doyle sat down and said "OOO THIS WOUDL BE DIFFERENT AND WEIRD..." It came out of a theater company in London that couldn't afford to pay actors, musicians and crew. So much of this show came out of practicality to help tell the story: the white lab coats? - Doyle needed to remind the audience that a 'character' was dead while the actor reminded on stage for another hour to help tell the end of the story.
Toby not as much of a presence? This version is HIS story.

And the litttle white coffin's metaphor is not innocence. It's loss and fear of the greatest kind (death of a child). Which I didn't completely see until I saw the show more than once. But it becomes less of a presence throughout the act as he remembers less and less of his past, his love, his suffering. To the point that at the end he buries the little coffin inside the large one.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:14pm

The actor playing Toby has a big presence, but the actual character of Toby doesn't have a whole hell of a lot to do in this particular telling. The relationship between he and Lovett (his central relationship in the show) is merely sketched in, making 'Not While I'm Around' beautifully sung and nothing more.

Your explanation of the little white coffin still doesn't make it seem any more meaningful to me. Todd has already experienced loss of a profound kind within the first 30 minutes of the show. So introducing it as his barber chair in Act 2 seems...well...odd. To go with 'loss of a child' seems odd as well. He hasn't lost her, actually. For much of the second act, he believes that he will be reunited with her. The coffin is a cool prop, but not a great metaphor.

As for the lab coats, I'm not opposed to them (though the blood on them was a bit more 'Candy Apple Red' than blood colored). My problem was with how the lab coats were placed long moments before a character is actually killed. It takes the suspense out of the moment.

In general, I don't have a problem with the 'concept' as much as I have a problem with the execution of said concept.

[uncageg]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:42pm

I see it the week of the 14th of November. Having seen the original and being an owner of the DVD, I will still walk into the theatre with an open mind. And, I look forward to it being nothing like the original. I have stated here a number of times that I am not a Lupone fan, but friends of mine that have seen it and also are not fans of hers have said that she is wonderful. So I am going to see it. Plus it is my favorite musical and I think I would like it in any form. Well...maybe not if Brittney Spears were singing the lead...but you all know what I mean!

[inishmore]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 4:11pm

Another note about the little white coffin: when he gets his new "chair" he doesn't in fact think he will see Johanna again. He knows shes not dead but the Judge has said he was going to hide her away near the end of act one. In Sweeney's version of Johanna, act two, he sings about how he fears they "will never meet again" and "goodbye johanna", etc. So it is about the loss. And even though she is not a child now, she was the last time he saw her, so she will always be the child in his mind now. Also, as I said, as the show continues through the act the chair looses some of that symbolism as he cares less and less for his love and becomes obsessed with the madness of it all.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 4:55pm

But equating the chair (an aid in the slaughter and disposal of the bodies) with his loss of Johanna is a tough comparison to make. It just didn't work for me.

Two other things I would have changed about the production that would have made me like it just a touch more:

1. Kill Johanna...go ahead...do it. In this staging she doesn't come back, so why the hell not. It would have been truly shocking.

2. They should have cut the final 'Ballad of Sweeney Todd'. Ending it with the 'smoothly, smoothly, smoothly' and Toby's return to the straight jacket and gag would have actually been bookending the piece. But the final Ballad seems completely tacked on and unecessary.

[GirlfriendFromCanada]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 5:05pm

I agree about the final "Ballad of Sweeney Todd". It took away from the eerie-ness of the ending to have Tobias bound up as he was at the beginning of the show, and then unbound again to sing the final song.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 5:11pm

That's why I have a problem with the execution and not the concept. If you're gonna go there...if you are indeed going to deconstruct, go for it completely.

A friend (who did not like the production) thought it would have worked better to have each character leave the stage after being killed, reducing the orchestra more and more so your just left with maybe two instruments by the end of the show. I was all for that, too.

[Isabella2]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 6:02pm

i dissagree. If it ended with just toby in the chair, then it would have been less of a a musical. besides it's way too sad it they did it that way. with the last ballad of sweeney todd it gives it that last bit of musical "omf!" you know what I mean?

[ihearttheatre]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 6:58pm

This production was my first experiance with Sweeney Todd. I I loved it and was able to follow the story, but there were many confusing points. For me, as a first timer, it was very unclear what the Beadle's role was. He seemed to just kind of be there. The symbolism of the white coffin was also very vague.

As I was reading this thread, more than once I thought to myself,"Ohh, that's what that was SUPPOSED to be". I liked the concept, but agree that it could have been executed with more precision and clarity.

(I know this has been discussed) At the end, when there is a blackout and Tobias is once again in the straight jacket, everyone stood and applauded like it was the end. I knew the finale was still to come, but no one else seemed to. I think "The Ballad of Sweeney Todd" at the end should not be taken out, but they need to do something to make the trasition into it cleaner so they don't lose the audiance's focus.

Anyway, the cast was pretty awesome.

[GirlfriendFromCanada]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 8:41pm

then it would have been less of a a musical. besides it's way too sad it they did it that way.

Do you mind explaining that a little bit further? Sure, it would be sad, but I'm not sure that's a reason not to do it.

The idea of the orchestra decreasing as the characters are killed is SO intriguing, and would have made the end so haunting. Now I'm curious to see how/if that would have worked!

[Isabella2]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 9:58pm

well i kind of ment that if it had just ended with Toby tied and gagged, the feeling of closure would be gone and as an audience member, it would have made me more sad that it ended that way. The last ballad made it so that you were reminded of the music and of what happened and what they were saying in the beginning. Having all of the cast members singing in unison again was amazing.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 10:03pm

'it was very unclear what the Beadle's role was'

This was also addressed in the original staging's pantomime during 'Poor Thing'. The actress playing Johanna was actually playing Lucy, Todd's wife, in it. She mimed opening a window and cradeling a baby. Then the Judge and Beadle appeared, conspiring how to 'get' her. The re-enact the story of the song up to and including the part where the Judge rapes Lucy.

So those characters are fully set up. Now...you don't have to do the pantomime, but it's a pretty flawless idea...one that leads directly to the end of the show. The Beggar Woman ends up in Todd's parlor and re-enacts all the movements that Johanna/Lucy did earlier. It is then that you realize The Beggar Woman is Lucy. And it's why Todd murdering her is so upsetting.

As for the final Ballad of Sweeney Todd, it seems that what the production was aiming for was a very disturbing telling. Leaving the audience with the final image of Toby strapped to a chair in silence would have been perfect. It works on several levels. First, it's a disturbing image by itself. Then you have an audience of people waiting for that final musical number to remind them that it's all just a story...and that number never arrives. It's jarring and upsetting...and, it seems, perfectly in keeping with the spirit of this production.

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 10:41pm

these reviews are discouraging, but i still want to see it. can you see from the back of the mezzanine, does anyone know? $100 is a lot for a ticket.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 10:47pm

I would actually not discourage anyone from seeing this show. Though I felt it didn't actually work, it contained some interesting ideas and 9 fantastic performers.

I was in the back of the mezzanine and saw everything just fine.

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 10:54pm

alright, thanks. i'm glad you at least enjoyed some things about it.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 11:08pm

Remember the $36 tickets, they are definately worth it and not bad at all.

See the show decide for yourself, it seems to be a total crapshoot between really love it, or have serious reservations. (I happen to be in the 'love it' camp.)

[inishmore]

Posted: 10/28/05 at 1:53am

I think the reprise of the Ballad is supposed to be a little, unsettling (not in the mood of the show I mean in logistics, I can't think of the word I'm looking for right now). It should be a very different beat/thought. So the short fade on Toby is supposed to be a bit of closure on that moment, seem like a fitting end. But the Ballad is no longer really within the show. The lyrics are slightly different, it's staged unlike anything in the show and it seems now more or less the actors commenting on the show you've just sat through so I think it would be wrong for the show to take it out.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/28/05 at 11:07am

See...but that, I believe is the problem. For this concept to really work, we need to actually buy the fact that these are people in an asylum acting out a story...OR we need to believe that these are Toby's thoughts. It's also the problem with such known people like Patti Lupone, Michael Cerveris, Mark Jacoby and Donna Lynne Champlin being cast in the show. We can never fully give ourselves over to the concept. We, as an audience, are always aware that we are watching actors we've enjoyed for a very long time performing in a show. The biggest laugh of the night was Patti Lupone playing the tuba. Why? Not becuase it was Mrs. Lovett playing the tuba, but the woman who gave us Evita, Reno and Corky's mom. It exists on a meta level that just undercuts the concept.

If we're left with simply the image of this disturbed young man who has been through something traumatic (or not...perhaps it really is just all in his head) and must be put away, we are left in a very disturbed, unsettling (sp??) place. To break out of it (and character) to comment on everything we've seen and that Sweeney could be everywhere seems to go against what this production is trying to say. Perhaps it's not Sweeney who is everywhere, but Tobias, being driven by the things he has seen (or thinks he has seen). But we're not allowed to fully experience that. We pulled out of those feelings far too soon.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/28/05 at 11:22am

But Robbie, isnt that true of every show a star is in? What show can Patti do without you saying to yourself "there's Patti!" I found everyone very convicing and everyone was riveted, not about Patti, but about what Nettie was going to do next.

I will agree that the final Ballad is a problem. It's one of my favorite pieces of music, but I wanted to be left with the vision of Toby in the straight jacket. Lovett's death, Sweeney's death and that ending were worth the price of the ticket, IMHO. I want to be left feeling bad. The show is a tragedy.