Bernadette vs. Patti as Rose

[Elphaba3]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 1:33am

Why is Patti unanimously loved in Gypsy, while Bernadette's performance was loved by some and hated by some? I saw Bernadette as Rose three times and it is truly impossible for me to understand why people think she was miscast, but everyone has a right to their opinion. Both ladies are Broadway legends, and it doesn't make sense to me that one is universally loved as Rose and that one got such mixed reviews. I am biased because I'm a huge Bernadette fan and I'm not a LuPone fan. Please don't shoot me. I just want to hear other people's thoughts in this and to understand it better.

[C is for Company]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 1:40am

Because in Show Queen hierarchy, Patti>Bernadette.

Plus, Patti can sing pretty flawlessly compared to Bernadette. I prefer Bernie as an actress, but singing I say Patti gets it. However, Bernadette I feel is more expressive singing and has warmth by the buckets.

However, I think it comes down to you just not seeing past whatever flaws Bernadette had, whereas many feel LuPone was stronger and that the role fit her like a glove.

[Elphaba3]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 1:46am

I wasn't so familar with Bernadette the first time I saw her, so I wasn't biased either way. My opinion is that she was truly flawless in the role. I wasn't seeing past anything. Hoever I do thing she was completely miscast in Annie Get Your Gun, but that's another story.
Updated On: 3/19/07 at 01:46 AM

[PersonofInterest]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 2:07am

For me, it's not really about a comparison.

Rose is just one of those roles that I want to see every divas interpretation of. I, to this day, still flip flop on my favorites between Merman, Russell, Lansbury Daly, and Midler.

I never saw Betty's but from bootlegs it had it's own flair.

Bernadette's was actually quite good, I thought, especially after she lost the Tony. That gave her that bitter hunger she lacked early in the run.

Patti is a perfect Rose to me, so I am thrilled to possibly get to see it. I was heartbroken I didn't get to see it in Chicago.

Andrea McCardle, well...ok, fine, I can't even get through the rest of that sentence.

I'd also love to see some less conventional Rose's someday. I think Debra Monk would be great! Christine Ebersole would be fascinating.

The thing I'm truly waiting for, and still believe will happen one day, is Barbra's Rose! That is the Crown Jewel, to me, of all possible diva experiences.

[skingdom]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 6:24am

LuPone>Peters?

According to?

Come again?

Skingdom out.

Posted: 3/19/07 at 6:32am

arent you the one who started the big "help me understand patti lupone" thread last year?

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:09am

I'm not so sure Patti is universally loved in this role. How many people saw both her AND Peters in the role? Lupone still hasn't really done a full production in NY that the vast majority of us can see.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:12am

PoI, I took a friend of mine to the first preview of CURTAINS, and afterward she asked me, with disbelief, why Debra Monk has never played Rose. It does seem a perfect fit for some high-end regional production.

That said, I worked on the Daly production and have a very sentimental attachment to it. As big of a Peters fan as I am, I was reluctant to see her Rose. However, she absolutely blew me away on every level. I think she was stunning and, frankly, more dimensional than Daly.

[philcrosby]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:14am

The simple fact that the role of Rose has been played -- and played well (some better than others according to personal opinion of course) -- by actresses as wildly diverse as Merman, Lansbury, Daly, Peters, Buckley, and LuPone, among many, many others, indicates its a role of great depth, nuance and color that can stand varied interpretations.

The one thing it absolutely demands, however, is that the actress be able to get through the score. It's a bitch to sing and Rose carries to load. It always surprises me that Tyne Daly was able to maneuver it better than Peters, but there you are.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:16am

Not true. I understand Peters had some off times where she wasn't able to make it through so well, but the night I saw her she completely nailed it. You can't even compare someone who's a true singer like she is with Daly who acted her way through the songs, with a very weak voice. And I saw Daly perform the role dozens of times.

Updated On: 3/19/07 at 09:16 AM

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:27am

Because in Show Queen hierarchy, Patti>Bernadette.

That's why Patti has one Tony, and Bernadette has TWO.

I don't think so.

I love them both. But, I heard some recordings of Patti as Mama Rose and, forgive me, but I don't think she was right for it. She's an amazing actress and singer but her voice is not a Mama Rose voice.

Bernadette was flawless everytime I saw her.

[Spacedog78]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:27am

Personally I do not like either, my FAVORITE Mama Rose is and will always be Bette Midler!

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:35am

"Because in Show Queen hierarchy, Patti>Bernadette."

That's why Patti has one Tony, and Bernadette has TWO.

That's the lousiest argument I've ever heard in my life.

Updated On: 3/19/07 at 09:35 AM

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:37am

Then give me an arguement as to why that statement is true.

If we're going by merit alone, then my arguement is solid.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:40am

Wait wait wait - we're arguing over "Show Queen Hierarchy"?

[Kringas]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:43am

but her voice is not a Mama Rose voice.

I don't really understand that at all, unless you felt that Merman didn't have a Mama Rose voice, either. While I'm not saying the two are identical, I think they're cut from the same cloth in terms of that bombastic powerful voice.

I didn't see Peters so I can't compare the two, but LuPone was simply sensational as Rose.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:45am

Someone stated that Peters added alot of warmth to the role. That is actually the opposite of what I saw. I felt she lacked warmth, both with Herbie and her children. Vocally she was strong enough, but seemed to be straining emotionally.
Daly was the opposite, she wasnt up to the vocals, but more than made up for it in charm, sexiness and intelligence.
Buckley was a vocal powerhouse, and little else.

I never saw the other stage Roses, but will not miss Patti in the role.

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:46am

Personally, I don't feel one way or another. Someone else made the initial statement. All I'm saying is that the "Diva A has more Tony Awards than Diva B" argument is silly. There are so many variables involved in a person winning a Tony Award. Each year there are different nominees. When Patti won for EVITA, she was up against different performances than Bernadette was the year that she won for SONG & DANCE, and a different group of performances the year that she won for ANNIE GET YOUR GUN. Not to mention that award wins are subjective. A Tony Award statuette does not a Diva make.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 9:47am

Kringas, what I meant to say is that LuPone lacks the bit of gritiness that Mama Rose calls for. Her voice is very refined. Almost too refined for the character.

Not that Bernadette is unrefined. But her voice contains the slight earthiness that I feel Mama Rose should have. I felt this in Merman, Daly and even Lansbury. While Lansbury can have a very refined soprano, she made necessary changes when it came to singing Rose.

I don't feel LuPone made those changes.

[GYPSY1527]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 10:27am

Why is everyone trying to "understand" why some might like Patti and others might prefer Bernadette. Its called an opinion for a reason. I loved Bernadette and from what I saw of Patti, I enjoyed it and am very much looking foward to seeing her live. You know, it is possible to like two different people in the same character...

[mike L G]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 12:31pm

AWMEN Gypsy Bernadette in my opinion gave it her all
and will just have to wait and see about Patti

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 12:42pm

I could only judge Bernadette from the Broadway Revival Cast recording, and I felt Bernadette was simply awful on the CD. I know it's hard to act when you're just recording in front of a mic, but I didn't know Bernadette wanted to play Rose was a drunk.

I heard she added a lot of warmth to Rose and made her more human, so I wish I could have seen it live. However, Bernadette never really screams motherly warmth. She always seems to be baby-voiced coy.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 12:57pm

Patti was "universally loved" by the relatively few people who saw her perform the role for three nights. I'd wager that opinions will be more varied when she does it in New York. I have no doubt that she was great, but you really can't compare opinions generated by a full run on Broadway to those based on a concert performance and ask why they're not more similar.
Updated On: 3/19/07 at 12:57 PM

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 1:00pm

^Did you see her brilliant performance on the Tonys the year she was nominated? I'd say that's a fair representation of her work in the show.

I wouldn't say Bernadette necessarily brought warmth to the role so much as vulnerability. It's not a quality most people would associate with Mama Rose, but the character would be awfully one dimensional without vulnerability, and Peters found those private moments to reveal that humanity. Her "Rose's Turn" was really a nervous breakdown--the level of vulnerability she found in that moment was extremely powerful.

And yes, Bernadette Peters is coy and cute, but she was still playing Mama Rose. She charmed and wheedled her way into everything, and it completely worked. I feel like some people have a very set idea of what Mama Rose "should" be that is not necessarily backed by the text, so people often dismiss Peters as the wrong type.



But count me in on the people who see no need for a comparison here. Bernadette Peters' Rose is the greatest performance I've had the privilege to see on stage, and I'm excited beyond words to see Patti in the role. But they're very different performers, and one can appreciate the different colors each actress is able to bring out in the role.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 3/19/07 at 1:10pm

I didnt get vulnerability in Peters' Rose, even during Rose's Turn. I never felt the connection to the role...she seemed to be reaching for the role, but it was just out of her grasp.