TDF cost > face value?

[TonyVincent]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 1:00pm

I got TDF tickets the other night, and what TDF charged me for my ticket (before the service charge) was more than the face value of the ticket I was given (I paid about 15% OVER face value).

I e-mailed them about this, assuming it was a clerical error. The response to the e-mail pretty much said "the face value of your ticket is what we paid to the theater, we can charge you pretty much whatever we want to fund our other effors or subsidize other shows."

Since when are hidden fees and charging above the face value of the ticket legal? When I pay $X for a ticket and $Y in a service charge, I expect $X to go to the theater and $Y to go to the ticket broker, not $X minus whatever they feel like keeping for themselves without telling me.

Seems pretty underhanded to deceive customers like that. If you want to keep more money from the more popular shows, charge a higher fee, don't scalp them for more than face value. This experience will certainly make me less likely to renew my membership.

[Gary Indiana]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 1:16pm

When I saw Bash'd, the price on my ticket was a few dollars less than what I paid through tdf. It was still so much cheaper than a full price ticket would have been, so I was ok with it. I do agree with you that it is annoying that the extra fee is not advertised.

[4thRowAsile]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 1:38pm

You might re-read your membership agreement or TDF mission statement.

The ticket price printed on your ticket is ALWAYS different, but not always lower, than the price we pay.

The small difference goes to keep the company in operation. Someone has to pay for the staff and office equipment, not to mention invest in the really amazing travel, education, and special access programs. Go to their website and look at all the things they do for students and those with mobility/sight/hearing challenges!!!

They also help underwrite new shows. Look on the title page of most new plays and a lot of new musicals and you'll see a note that says something like "thanks to TDF for the support." In those cases, TDF actually pays the theatre MORE for the ticket than you pay them.

All in all, for a couple of bucks (and still CHEAP PRICES compared to full price)...not a bad deal at all!!!

Updated On: 9/25/08 at 01:38 PM

[TonyVincent]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 2:01pm

I understand that 4th. I read my membership agreement. I'm still saying it is very deceptive.

The small difference goes to keep the company in operation. Someone has to pay for the staff and office equipment, not to mention invest in the really amazing travel, education, and special access programs. Go to their website and look at all the things they do for students and those with mobility/sight/hearing challenges!!!

That's what my membership fee and service fees go to. Ticketmaster has to keep the lights on, too, don't they? If they want to raise funds, they should be straightforward about it--either charge a higher membership fee, charge a higher per-ticket fee, or solicit donations. You know why they don't? Because being honest would make the prices seem less attractive and lose them business. Hiding fees in ticket prices and not giving the theater as much as I'm paying FOR THE TICKET (not the service) is unethical.

And they also quoted me line "The ticket price printed on your ticket is ALWAYS different, but not always lower, than the price we pay." Well, I've ordered tickets to 6 shows before this one, and the ticket price always matched. So that statement is a lie.

The intent doesn't make a difference--if you reperesent a ticket as costing more than its actual face value, you're scalping it.
Updated On: 9/25/08 at 02:01 PM

[markymatt]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 2:49pm

If the amount you paid is the amount you agreed to pay, I don't see what difference the price printed on the ticket is. TDF never says that you pay face value for the ticket. In fact, they say you don't. I guarantee you the producers know how much TDF is selling the ticket for (as do the auditors), so I don't see their not giving the theater the full amount that you pay as unethical at all.

No matter what price is listed on the ticket, seeing a Broadway show for under $35 is always going to seem attractive.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 2:52pm

They've started to put location of seats on their listings in recent months. I assume they've had a number of complaints. I've been put in seats in rows that are $5 more expensive than what they charged.

[Luckydave14]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 2:58pm

I think what TonyVincent is trying to say is that the face value of the seats that TDF gave him were less than what they charged him, which really isn't right. If they are going to charge $35 + fees for a $25 seat, then they should be advertising that on the page, because TDF is basically a program for people to save money on their tickets.

When you buy a ticket from TDF, usually they charge around $35 for a Broadway musical, but the ticket price on the ticket usually is around $28-$29. So in effect, they are already charging you a fee in the ticket price, and then another processing fee on top of that. If they are going to make their ticket prices, including the fee be more than the price you'd pay at the box office, they are really cheating you.

What show did this happen to you at, TonyVincent?

[markymatt]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 3:14pm

The price that's printed on the ticket is the price TDF paid which is not what you would pay if you went to the box office. You would pay full price (or use whatever discount you have) and that is the price that would then be printed on the ticket.

[TonyVincent]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 3:24pm

Well said, Lucky, and I agree, Yankee.

The show was Xanadu. Because I ordered four tickets, I effectively paid 400% more in extra fees to TDF than I expected. Updated On: 9/25/08 at 03:24 PM

[boxboynyc]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 3:31pm

I'm sorry but I find your venom completely unfounded about this issue. If you don't want to renew your membership, then don't and you can pay full price and the ridiculous fees that ticketmaster and telecharge charge PER TICKET. The tdf fee is for the order, no matter how many seats you get. It never ceases to amaze me how entitled people can be about a deeply discounted ticket opportunity.

[TonyVincent]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 3:49pm

I'm sorry but I find your venom completely unfounded about this issue. If you don't want to renew your membership, then don't and you can pay full price and the ridiculous fees that ticketmaster and telecharge charge PER TICKET. The tdf fee is for the order, no matter how many seats you get. It never ceases to amaze me how entitled people can be about a deeply discounted ticket opportunity.

Please read my post before replying next time. I am not referring to the TDF processing fee.

[boxboynyc]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 3:56pm

I read all of your posts and you seem to be missing the point. Complain all you want but I don't think your very strong opinion on this holds water. If you are that upset about a couple dollars difference then quit, don't support theater, and give all your money to ticketing agencies.

[Luckydave14]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 4:11pm

Oh, well if you got them for Xanadu, you really got a good deal because every seat in that theater (besides the onstage ones) is $111.50. I thought you were referring to going to a theater where the seats they gave you were really $25 seats, or cheap to that effect. If that is what happened, they really are cheating you, and I have heard instances of where that has happened. But, I guess you are referring to the ticket price on your ticket being a few dollars cheaper than the TDF price. To my understanding, the extra couple dollars is for the programs that TDF runs and the service fee that is on top of the ticket price is the processing fee to pay for office staff/getting your tickets to the box office, etc.
Updated On: 9/25/08 at 04:11 PM

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 4:34pm

I've paid $40 for seats (that includes service charge) thru TDF which, at face value, were $46.

[markymatt]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 4:44pm

When you say "face value", do you mean the price that's printed on the ticket or the regular price of the ticket? I think some people are under the misconception that if "$46" is printed on the ticket, it means that they would have paid $46 for the ticket without tdf (and therefore they are not getting a good deal) which is not true.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 4:51pm

The box office was selling the seat for, give or take, $46.

The discounted price from TDF was $35 with $5 of service fees.

If I ordered the ticket through Telecharge, it would have been $50-odd, including service fees. If I got it at the box office, it would have been $48 with the restoration fee.

Plus or minus a few dollars.
Updated On: 9/25/08 at 04:51 PM

[markymatt]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 4:53pm

yeah, not so good of a deal there--of course, not a bad deal either... especially if there were no other discounts available :)

[TonyVincent]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 4:58pm

Yes, I am the same position that Yankee described. I have also gone to cheaper shows where, after fees, I paid practically the same price, if not a few dollars more, than I would have if I had paid full price.

And marky, your arguments really "don't hold water" when you show a lack of understanding of my situation in your post. You accuse me of complaining about explicit service fees. I am not. I am complaining about hidded surcharges and inaccurate prices.

And "face value" of a ticket is the "value" of the ticket on its "face." It is NOT the "next best available option."

[Luckydave14]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 5:00pm

To my understanding, the price that is printed on a TDF ticket is the price that they pay the box office for that ticket. Then they charge a couple of extra dollars on top of that price to support the programs that they run, and another fee to handle their costs.

The face value of the ticket would be what you would have paid for that seat at the box office.

[chris1978]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 5:26pm

Just a comment. I got tickets for The Seagull through tdf at $34 per ticket including the service fee. The tickets I received were Row H mezz center aisle. Stamped on the ticket was the price of $41 but the actual cost of the ticket if I had bought it at face value from the box office was $77. So, while I didn't get a great deal I still got a good deal.

In the past I've received seats that would have been equivalent to face value but never paid more that the seat was worth.

Also, I believe it is up to the box office staff to decide based on availability where the seats are located. So, it isn't tdf's fault if you end up in a seat equal in price to what you paid for.

[TonyVincent]

Posted: 9/25/08 at 5:37pm

I guess they negotiate a price with the show, and bring them all closer to the center to try to even out overall prices.

Xanadu agrees to receive $31.50 for a ticket, but Seagull wants $41.50. TDF subsidizes the Seagull viewers at the expense of the Xanadu viewers. Just seems a little weird. (And why would shows like Xanadu be happy about it?)

[markymatt]

Posted: 9/26/08 at 2:53pm

TonyVincent--I went back and re-read my posts to try to figure out where you might have thought I was accusing you of anything and I came up empty. Can I assume that since you put "don't hold water" in quotes, that you are confusing my post with boxboynyc's where he uses that phrase?

I do agree with your definition of "face value". Since tickets are not printed until they are paid for, the price on the ticket is what was paid. When trying to figure out how good of a deal someone got, I recommend people compare what they paid to what the full price is of a ticket, or the price with more common discounts (the way Yankeefan did). So, for example, chris1978 saved over 50% on his Seagull ticket, compared to full price, even though he only saved $10 off of the "face value"--the $41.50 price is not one that would have been available to him (or her).

As for why the producers of Xanadu would be happy about TonyVincent's scenario... the best I can say is that they still make some money and get butts in seats. I don't know how it's decided how much money TDF buys their tickets for, but that's really between them and the producers. It's an agreement they've worked out together, and as long as I can see shows for $35--which is the price that TDF advertises when they sell me the ticket--I don't mind staying out of that negotiation.

[little_sally]

Posted: 9/26/08 at 3:44pm

Every time I've used TDF, I've sat in the $111 (or $120 or whatever they're charging for them nowadays) seats. So I can't complain if TDF is charging me $3 or 4 more than what it says on my ticket.

[matty159]

Posted: 9/26/08 at 8:06pm

I'm with Little_Sally. When I was up in the city over the summer, every ticket that I got through TDF would have been top tier tickets. I am hoping to have the same luck at the end of October, but think to see what I want to see, I am going to have to pay regular prices or chance TKTS.

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 9/26/08 at 9:49pm

"I read all of your posts and you seem to be missing the point. Complain all you want but I don't think your very strong opinion on this holds water. If you are that upset about a couple dollars difference then quit, don't support theater, and give all your money to ticketing agencies."

I think Tony Vincent was complaining about how they charge extra without telling the patron where the money goes...no?

I don't think he actually thinks charging extra money is wrong, if they were more specific about it.