13 Reasons Why on Netflix - Page 4

[hork]

Posted: 5/8/17 at 7:38pm

ErikJ972 said: "Jane2 said: "To the people who think this glorifies suicide, please give reasons for your  judgment. I find your opinions difficult to understand."

Mainly because it portrays suicide as a revenge fantasy. 

Again, it's not about revenge. It's about sending a message. It's no different than writing a suicide note. There's no revenge at play here. 

 

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/8/17 at 8:01pm

You people keep nit picking at every little detail of the show. "She did this, she did that, she didn't report this, etc. etc..."

You can't see the forest for the trees. This show is about what bullying can do. It totally served its purpose. If you can't concede that, there's no use in discussing with you.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 10:41am

Turn to whom? Report what? Other than the two rapes (which victims are often too afraid or embarrassed to report) and the car accident (which she did report), what is there to report?

Uh...the two rapes are a very good start, but she could have told any number of people about everything that was happening with her, ESPECIALLY the rape she witnessed and the rape she experienced (though I do understand why victims often don't report their own rapes).  Parents, police, teachers, principal, Clay...if not in person, then email, phone call, text, letter...SOMETHING.  Hell, she trusted Tony enough to coordinate and supervise her entire post-suicidal revenge-blame scavenger hunt game, but not enough to say something to him about any one of the things that led to her ending her life?  

Have you ever faced depression, or an emotional crisis of some sort? 

YES!  As a teen and as an adult!  That is where my responses are coming from...self experience.  

I'm not sure what you mean by "when she returns."

I thought the recording session was her second visit to the counselor, which I probably mixed up with another scene with someone else at the counselor.  Doesn't matter.  Either way, she was not "acting the way anyone would have".  First of all, the whole "this is how all depressed people behave" is patently untrue.  I do know this as fact.  From personal experience.  Secondly, Hannah had already spent a week recording all the details of everything that happened and then went to the counselor with an agenda.  I'm not saying that the events of the story are impossibly unrealistic.  I'm just saying that I feel they are more dramatically convenient than believable.    

As far as the show being about the dangers of bullying, I think it was actually trying to be more than that and covering more topics than simply bullying.  But when it came to bullying, I felt like it started out being about that and was not only about what bullying can lead to, but also about the dangers of complacency and silence when being a victim of bullying or a witness to it.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 10:58am

Jane2 said: "You people keep nit picking at every little detail of the show. "She did this, she did that, she didn't report this, etc. etc..."

You can't see the forest for the trees. This show is about what bullying can do. It totally served its purpose. If you can't concede that, there's no use in discussing with you."

I've had to sit with groups of students and do damage control because of the misconceptions about suicide they got from watching this show. That's not nit picking.

 

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 11:12am

The nit picking is in this thread.

Glad the show is prompting lots of discussion.

 

[hork]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 11:29am

Mister Matt said:
I thought the recording session was her second visit to the counselor, which I probably mixed up with another scene with someone else at the counselor.  Doesn't matter.  Either way, she was not "acting the way anyone would have".  First of all, the whole "this is how all depressed people behave" is patently untrue.  I do know this as fact.  From personal experience.

I said anyone, not everyone. Your experiences may be different. I could relate to Hannah, you obviously couldn't. C'est la vie.

As far as the show being about the dangers of bullying, I think it was actually trying to be more than that and covering more topics than simply bullying.  But when it came to bullying, I felt like it started out being about that and was not only about what bullying can lead to, but also about the dangers of complacency and silence when being a victim of bullying or a witness to it.

I think you're right about that. In fact, I'm glad you said that, because a lot of the show's critics seem to think that it's condoning Hannah's actions (or lack thereof), and that's just not true. One reason I liked it was because it portrays Hannah as a flawed person who makes bad choices, and yet she still remains sympathetic and relatable (at least to me).

 

[hork]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 3:32pm

Also, keep in mind that Hannah is an introvert, which is why she has trouble opening up to people. I'm extremely introverted, which is why I could relate to her.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 3:51pm

Well, I guess she might have been somewhere on the spectrum of introversion.  She really didn't seem to have a huge problem with meeting new people, going out on dates, going to parties, joining new groups and/or reading her amateur poetry to a group of strangers.  Her introversion didn't appear to hinder her ability to communicate with others.  I could understand her mounting fear and distrust would do so with respect to certain individuals, but that would not be introversion so much as a direct result of the abuse, betrayal and/or neglect from the other kids.

But, I assume we're simply supposed to accept the story at face value and not question its content.  At face value, I'd give the series a B-, at best.

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 4:28pm

I also got that Hannah was an introvert.

"She really didn't seem to have a huge problem with meeting new people, going out on dates, going to parties, joining new groups and/or reading her amateur poetry to a group of strangers. " 

You can type that list of things she did but if you watched the show, she did those things with a bit of cajoling and hesitation, like an introvert does. Her body language throughout read shyness to me.

[hork]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 4:28pm

Well, introversion isn't the same as shyness. I've known some very outgoing introverts. And, actually, she did have trouble reading her amateur poetry. That was a big hurdle for her to overcome, and that's also why it was such a big deal that that guy published it.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 4:54pm

I'm failing to see why the need for Hork's personal crusade in defense of such a terrible show. 

[hork]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 9:12pm

Because it's a good show that deserves to be talked about and defended. Get over it. 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 10:21pm

Like I said...spectrum of introversion.  Do I think being an introvert prevented her from telling someone the dangerous things that she witnessed or what happened to her?  I didn't see evidence of that in particular. Perhaps it's the contradiction that the author intends in order to highlight Hannah's faults and poor decision-making in the cautionary tale.  Or perhaps it's weak writing and construction that makes her character somewhat unbelievable and the dichotomy of her character was of convenience to the author in constructing the story.  Crafting the blame game scavenger hunt and entrusting it all to someone that little-to-no connection to her, but whom she trusts enough to do her rather detailed and involved bidding (but not enough to say anything to him when she had the chance) leads me to lean towards the latter.  It's all very dramatic and intense, that's for sure.  And it's interesting to discuss.  Does it deserve or need to be defended?  No.  It's fiction.  The author presents a cautionary tale using a post-suicidal revenge/guilt plot device as a narrative device.  The idea of which was probably the catalyst for the novel and she filled in the blanks accordingly.  That's what it looked like to me.  

Maybe she'll follow-up with something a bit more realistic, such as the fellow middle-school classmate who commits suicide and nobody in school can understand why.  One or both parents might know something, but never speak of it to anyone.  So the entire school, especially the faculty, determines it's best to behave as though they never existed until everyone just forgets about them.

[hork]

Posted: 5/9/17 at 10:54pm

Well, whether it deserves to be defended or not, if I read something about it that I disagree with, I'm going to speak my mind. If you want to call that defending it, fine. I just call it having a discussion.