13 Reasons Why on Netflix — Page 3

I hear what you're saying Jane. But the notion that "if you're just nicer to someone they won't kill themselves" is a myth too.

The message this show sends to teens is...don't seek help but just be nicer to everyone. In reality it's not that easy. That's why we spend so much time trying to educate teens on what to do if they suspect a friend is considering suicide.

The single most important thing that can save someone from suicide is getting professional help.

The other major problem I have is the show suggests that Hannah gets some type of revenge on her tormentors through the 13 tapes that she leaves behind. This is also a very dangerous message to send to vunerable teens. When you kill yourself you're not teaching anyone a lesson...you're just dead. It's a final solution to a temporary problem.

I do think this show got some things right in its portrayal of bullying. And all of the damage it can do. But it gets pretty much everything about suicide wrong.

He very clearly stated what it got wrong, you're just choosing not to acknowledge and process that.

Ok, yeah, well the bottom line is that this wasn't meant to be the encyclopedia of suicide, nor an issue of the AMA. It is meant to be the visual production of a book which is specifically about the huge problem of bullying that we have in our schools (and elsewhere).

They have hit the nail on the head in what they were aiming for.

Season 2 is confirmed. I'm really curious to see how it's filmed and where it goes.

SPOILERS ahead, I guess.

Hannah was empowered enough to spend a week planning her suicide by narrating all those tapes, going into such specific detail, but not enough to disclose all this to anyone who could actually help?

That was the point. She had just gotten through being hurt by 12 people in her life. She felt like she had no one to turn to, and she wasn't going to risk being hurt again. I mean, 12 people, that's a lot. I completely understand her choice to close herself off completely after that.

Tapes that could just have easily been ignored or thrown away because, well, as we've seen, people are evil, can't be trusted, and when you're dead, you are even more useless than you are when you're alive and do nothing.

Well, Tony had copies, and was told to release them publicly if they were ignored or thrown out.

She even goes so far as to purposely NOT disclose details to the counselor and record the conversation, deliberately NOT answering the questions he specifically said he needed to assist, portray him as the bad guy for not immediately clamoring after her, and killing herself the same day because he didn't play the part of her personal Deus Ex Machina within a matter of hours?

Yeah, because he was awful to her. He was her last chance to find some human compassion, and he said completely the wrong thing. Why would she want to engage with him after that? And then he didn't even care enough to follow her out the door, which was the final straw for her. She was already planning to kill herself that day, but decided to give the counselor his shot to possibly change her mind, to give her some other alternative. And he blew it.

Continued SPOILER alert...

That was the point. She had just gotten through being hurt by 12 people in her life. She felt like she had no one to turn to, and she wasn't going to risk being hurt again. I mean, 12 people, that's a lot. I completely understand her choice to close herself off completely after that.

She chose not to turn to anyone along the way. She chose not to report incidents or crimes.

Well, Tony had copies, and was told to release them publicly if they were ignored or thrown out.

So? What in the story (or at least in the series) leads us to believe everyone will do exactly as Hannah tells them to do on the tapes, including Tony?

And then he didn't even care enough to follow her out the door, which was the final straw for her.

Not really. It was a situation she orchestrated and immediately following her out the door was only significant in her narrative. Because after repeatedly shutting him down, chasing after her and begging her or whatever that action meant to her was somehow the significant trigger to a melodramatic plot. He could have been calling the principal, calling her parents, calling the police, sorting out his next move, but as with Clay, he didn't do precisely what she wanted while communicating the exact opposite to him.

She was already planning to kill herself that day, but decided to give the counselor his shot to possibly change her mind, to give her some other alternative. And he blew it.

See...that's what I'm talking about right there. She's using her circumstances to "test him" and ultimately, to guilt him over her week-long planned suicide because he SHE CHOSE NOT TO DISCLOSE INFORMATION. Yes, he handled the first interaction terribly. But when she returns, he specifically tells her what he needs to know due to his position and protocol, none of which was unreasonable and she DELIBERATELY avoids to manipulate the situation as evidence of his negligence...because she already decided to kill herself on the same day? Why...to increase the dramatic effect of his "not following her"? Sorry, but the way that's portrayed in the story is a total fail on her part. She did not intend to give him his last shot. She just wanted to extend his tape. She set it up for him to fail to fit her narrative.

For me it's just as much his series as it is hers.

Moreso, for me. I just felt bad for him that he couldn't get past Hannah's emotional manipulation of him and the huge guilt she unfairly placed on him. More than anything, I wanted him to be allowed to get angry with her and let the audience know why. If the story is to be a psychological exploration of abuse, suicide and the aftermath of the survivors, that should have played into the narrative. Instead, it focused more on the revenge tactic, which was why I think it derailed a bit irresponsibly. Sure, it made for a compelling story, but if it's going to attempt to take a therapeutic and moral high road, which clearly seems to be the aim, it misses the bullseye of its target. While Hannah's behavior could be explained by the fear, stress and anxiety of her abuse, the show sidesteps explorations of her behavior and her choices. If it's meant to be a cautionary tale, I have a real problem with it.

This show is some horrifically suicide-glorifying stuff. An evil, evil show.

Jane2 said: "To the people who think this glorifies suicide, please give reasons for your judgment. I find your opinions difficult to understand."

Mainly because it portrays suicide as a revenge fantasy.

So do you think teenagers are that cavalier about ending their lives?

I don't know if they are, but the show certainly appeared to me to lean in that direction. There is certainly a theme of "I'll make them ALL sorry" that drives nearly every episode. Her last day with the counselor leading to her death seemed pretty cavalier to me.

I don't think watching 13 Reasons Why alone would promot anyone to kill themselves. But I do think it's dangerous for kids who may already be contemplating suicide. Yes, suicide is the most drastic and final thing once can do. Unforutunately 13 Reasons Why doesn't present it as such.

Maybe I've had more of an education re suicide, maybe not. But those who are planning it do not walk around like deranged maniacs or super depressed people. Most of the time, no one even suspects it and are shocked when it happens. "I just saw him yesterday, and he was fine, etc...."

Anyway, thanks for your replies.

Mister Matt said:
She chose not to turn to anyone along the way. She chose not to report incidents or crimes.

Turn to whom? Report what? Other than the two rapes (which victims are often too afraid or embarrassed to report) and the car accident (which she did report), what is there to report? Nobody else did anything illegal, except for the creepy stalker guy, and she's obviously not going to report that.


Well, Tony had copies, and was told to release them publicly if they were ignored or thrown out.

So? What in the story (or at least in the series) leads us to believe everyone will do exactly as Hannah tells them to do on the tapes, including Tony?

We don't really learn anything about her relationship with Tony, but he's a stand-up guy and she apparently trusted him. As for everyone else, I just told you why.

And then he didn't even care enough to follow her out the door, which was the final straw for her.

Not really. It was a situation she orchestrated and immediately following her out the door was only significant in her narrative. Because after repeatedly shutting him down, chasing after her and begging her or whatever that action meant to her was somehow the significant trigger to a melodramatic plot. He could have been calling the principal, calling her parents, calling the police, sorting out his next move, but as with Clay, he didn't do precisely what she wanted while communicating the exact opposite to him.

See...that's what I'm talking about right there. She's using her circumstances to "test him" and ultimately, to guilt him over her week-long planned suicide because he SHE CHOSE NOT TO DISCLOSE INFORMATION. Yes, he handled the first interaction terribly. But when she returns, he specifically tells her what he needs to know due to his position and protocol, none of which was unreasonable and she DELIBERATELY avoids to manipulate the situation as evidence of his negligence...because she already decided to kill herself on the same day? Why...to increase the dramatic effect of his "not following her"? Sorry, but the way that's portrayed in the story is a total fail on her part. She did not intend to give him his last shot. She just wanted to extend his tape. She set it up for him to fail to fit her narrative.

Have you ever faced depression, or an emotional crisis of some sort? This is exactly how one behaves in such a state. You don't know how to talk about it or to answer questions, you hope the other person will just magically know how to fix you, and you play these sorts of mind games with yourself. Logic and critical thinking don't really play a part. She reacted to the counselor exactly the way anyone would have. I'm not sure what you mean by "when she returns." If I remember correctly, she didn't return after he told her to "move on." She gave him a chance, and he told her to move on, which is the worst possible thing he could have said.