Atonement- Page 3

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 12:21pm

Revolutionary: Your thoughts echo my own down to a T. You expressed them better than I ever could, so thank you for sharing that. I agree 600%.

[Jane2]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 12:23pm

Thanks, DG.

I read and respect everyone's opinions about what they felt were the explanations for the issues we're discussing. The point is-those things didn't work for me (and others!)

That's what's beautiful about art-it's subjective and we all have our innate ways of reacting to the creations.

My objection in this thread is this- It happens to be possible to state your own opinion in a very convincing way without having to laugh at or insult another person in the process.

Thank you Revolutionary, for doing that.

Updated On: 3/30/08 at 12:23 PM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 12:27pm

Oh, Jane, PLEASE. You can't tell me that you're taking my comments with this much heft!

Why take me so seriously? People would stop thinking I'm so nasty around here if they would take me with a grain of salt, just as I take myself.


I didn't say YOU were laughable. I said that comment was. And "Laughable" not as in "hahaha, you're dumb" but laughable as in "What? That's ridiculous. It was the point of the whole film."

There's nothing nasty about what I said. And I guarantee you that if this conversation were to have taken place in person, you wouldn't feel the same way about my intent.

And please, do forgive me for not starting every one of my posts with "I respect your opinions, but these are JUST my thoughts...PLEASE...take from them what you will....I mean NO offense....they're just my opinions." That doesn't make what I have to say any nicer or less sincere.

[Jane2]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 12:39pm

"There's nothing nasty about what I said"

OK, Munk.. Probably we should end this argument, at least in public.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 12:41pm

Oh, Christ.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 12:45pm

"I was somewhat flummoxed by so many people buying into this, except that society in general seems to have devolved to a point where taking responsibility for one's actions just isn't that much of a priority. "

Taking responsibility for my actions is absolutely a priority, so I do hope that no one assumes a love for this film or feeling that there was remorse is some sign of a lack in morality or sense of responsibility.

I feel that some of you are looking at this story through the notion of today. I imagine it was a great deal more difficult to come to understand what had actually happened and then be able to speak of it in the time that this happened. I think a bit of historical context is needed. I also think that life is too complicated to assume that every situation can be resolved just as easily as one sees it.

Not to mention that part of her remorse may indeed be that she didn't take action in time. She ****ed up as a child and then she ****ed up as a young adult.

But regardless, I am tempted to believe that the intent was to create debate and discussion just as we are having.

And if a piece of art can do that--that's a huge success in itself. Particularly in this era of disposable and forgettable "art". It obviously got you thinking and got you passionate about what you thought of it.

[Revolutionary]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 12:49pm

Awww. Munk, I've read your Atonement posts too, I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head repeatedly with this topic, so right back at you. :)

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 12:53pm

[DG]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 12:53pm

Jerby - I buy that. I'm being a little harsh, I suppose. I just can't wrap my head around not trying to make things right when the results were SO devastating. Wrongful imprisonment is a tough one for me.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 12:56pm

Yes. Great conflict. And devastating results.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 12:57pm

DG, Revolutionary outlines a beautiful and perfectly reasonable example of why Briony didn't run to the cops.

[Jane2]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 1:00pm

Excellent points, Jerby. You could be entirely right about considering the era.

My reaction to the film's basic premise occurred right after it was over. I didn't like Vanessa's Briony. I didn't feel she was sincere. I didn't feel she atoned at all. I'm not sure why she went into nursing, but if it was because of guilt, then I think she chose the easy way out. Yes, it's hard to come forward and admit you lied. Maybe she thought she was atoning by nursing, but I don't buy it. As I said, she let them die.

The film was beautiful, and the art direction and cinematography were outstanding.

[DG]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 1:02pm

"That was her motive, it stemmed from love, and in the movie, it was not exactly spelled out."

I didn't read the book, so maybe that was what I was missing. And while I understand the 'universe coming together' scenario, it was ultimately her testimony that sealed the deal.

I agree it is tragic, and the 'fatal flaw' that is important to the classical definition of tragedy to me is her ultimate lack of fortitude and morality.

[violet72]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 1:06pm

I love this movie. But my feeling about the meaning of Atonement in this movie is this. Briony lived in her head her whole life and so when she wrote the happy ending in her mind she thought that she atoned. In reality, her atonement is that she lived a lonely life(wasn't conveyed in movie but conveyed in book), always carrying the guilt around with her. She was doomed to be the observer of peoples lives and not able to live her own life because of the guilt of ruining 2 people that she loved lives. Also because of this lie(story) she ruined her own life. No matter what she did she could never make up for that one lie that she told.Does that make up for what she did...it is up to you the reader/movie watcher to decide. Thats why I love this movie/book because it forces you to answer the question for yourself...it doesn't spoon feed you the ending

Its just my opinion

[Jane2]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 1:11pm

It sounds to me from your excellent post, Violet, that reading the book is key. That way you can learn what a character is thinking and feeling, and what determines their actions.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 1:14pm

<------hasn't read the book

[DG]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 1:14pm

I wonder if this just boils down to different interpretations of 'atonement'. Coming from my staunch Catholic background (which STILL rears its ugly head at times,) I tend to see at as some sort of compensatory action to 'make up for' transgression. But I also see a definition that simply states 'compensation for a wrong' - which some could interpret her own life of lonliness and deprivation as being - even without an overt acknowledgement of her wrongdoing.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 1:23pm

I will say that my love for this film (and really, the entire story in general) is probably aided by the fact that I read the book as well. If I hadn't and had just seem the film, I might feel the same way as some of you. I can only imagine that reading the book would strengthen your feelings on the story.

[DG]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 1:25pm

Just for the record (not that it means anything,) on a technical level I thought the film was breath-taking.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 1:29pm

Oh, yes!

The scene where Robbie is in the bathtub listening to music, while Cecilia is smoking a cigarette and putting her makeup on in front of a mirror. With the soft light, the Puccini, and the cigarette smoke swirling around her face...my god, it took my breath away.

[Jon]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 9:53pm

I think they should have just changed the title to "C.U. Next Tuesday!"

[EponineAmneris]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 9:59pm

Revolutionary, that was amazing. I also agree with you 600%.

To me, when you atone, you atone TO the person/people you have wronged face to face.

She did not/could not do that.

They were dead.

At the very least, she made herself feel better.

It should have been called JEALOUSY because Briony did not atone for anything.

Updated On: 3/31/08 at 09:59 PM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/30/08 at 10:04pm

Just because it's called ATONEMENT doesn't mean that the title implies that Briony actually ever atoned for anything.