Bailout fails- Page 6

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 9:49pm

exactly right, jav. the next president will be a one-termer. i contended all along that the country would pick mac as a stop-gap and postpone the big decision, but the gop's action today might just throw that to bammy.

my problem with the latter is the utter and total destruction that dumb ass bammy could wreak with a democrat congress to rubber stamp his naive ass ideas.

namo's gonna kill me, but maybe - just maybe - mac could still pull this out. how? to paraphrase geoffrey rush in shakes in luv, "i have absolutely no idea."

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 9:52pm

No more than in recent years before this happened. New York City is the last to feel everything.

Why do you think calls were running 300 to 1 against this bailout?

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 10:34pm

Because people do not understand the scope of the problem. There has been an utter failure by leadership, and Bush specifically, to explain this in terms that people understand.

Many companies use bridge loans to meet payroll, knowing money is coming in within a couple of weeks to cover the cost of the loan. If those loans are no longer available, or the cost of the loans are higher, then things get very dicey.

I have negotiated plenty of contracts that are paid for in stages. Work is not paid for as performed, but based upon milestones.

This had been an utter failure of leadership all the way around.

[Luscious]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 10:37pm

"and the planet continues to spin"

Exactly. The sky isn't falling. The end isn't near, and THIS TOO SHALL PASS. La de da de de, la de da de da, and the beat goes on.

Gas was over $4.00 a gallon this summer, and the freeways were still jammed packed. If gas was $10.00 a gallon, there would still be traffic jams. People will find a way to afford the things they want that are important to them. (Like tickets to a Broadway show). So, we may have to tighten our belts a little. So what?

For the sun will rise
And the moon will set
And learn how to settle
For what you get.
It will all go on if we're here or not
So who cares? So what?
So who cares? So what?

[madbrian]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 10:42pm

This goes WAY, WAY BEYOND BELT TIGHTENING.

The credit market is on the verge of freezing. GOOD COMPANIES OF ALL SIZES are dependent upon credit to meet their OPERATING EXPENSES, including PAYROLL. In the absence of short-term credit, SOME GOOD COMPANIES THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH CREATING THIS CRISIS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PAY THEIR BILLS. Some people WILL NOT GET PAID THIS WEEK, and some companies WILL SHUT DOWN.

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 10:45pm

"Many companies use bridge loans to meet payroll"

Then perhaps those companies are the ones that deserve to go under for not holding enough cash reserves. It's a bad business practice.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 10:48pm

It is a bad practice to use credit cards. If you cannot afford to shell out big bucks for a show, do not see it. If you cannot afford to pay cash to go on a trip, stay home. It is the same principle. The world runs on credit

I just read on Yahoo that the fed & foreign banks have just pump billions of dollars int the banking system to stimulate credit & lending. Hopefully, it will help.

Updated On: 9/29/08 at 10:48 PM

[nygrl232]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 10:51pm

>>>Because people do not understand the scope of the problem. There has been an utter failure by leadership, and Bush specifically, to explain this in terms that people understand.

I don't think Bush understands it himself. Someone came up with $700bn somewhere, but it's doubtful Bush knows why it's $700bn (and neither do most people, for that matter). He's used to asking for money and getting it.
Updated On: 9/30/08 at 10:51 PM

[Luscious]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 10:59pm

"SOME GOOD COMPANIES THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH CREATING THIS CRISIS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PAY THEIR BILLS. Some people WILL NOT GET PAID THIS WEEK, and some companies WILL SHUT DOWN."

Yes, madbrian, you are correct. There will be casualties. Many innocent people will be affected by this, just as they're affected each and every day by an unjust war, a lying war-criminal President, natural disasters, and countless other horrific things that occur in this world every minute of every day. This country and its people get exactly the government they deserve. And one day, after we've all lost enough and suffered enough, the majority of people will wake up and come around to realize that it's time for a change; a MAJOR one. AND THIS TOO SHALL PASS. Unfortunately, there will be casualties along the way. And, as is almost always the case, the innocent, weakest, and poorest among us will suffer the greatest losses.

[Bickle]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 11:02pm

Pelosi has to resign. Then, maybe something constructive could happen.

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 11:11pm

"It is a bad practice to use credit cards. If you cannot afford to shell out big bucks for a show, do not see it. If you cannot afford to pay cash to go on a trip, stay home. It is the same principle."

That is exactly true and, believe it or not, many people live that way. Some live below their means by choice, some live at their means because they don't have credit.

BTW did you know that 75% of the banking in France is good old-fashioned retail banking? Few French citizens have true credit or large debt loads and the risk in their banking system is not excessive.

[LePetiteFromage]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 11:19pm

Updated On: 1/13/09 at 11:19 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 11:33pm

Look, I leave below my means, and I only purchase what I can pay for, never carrying an ongoing balance.

The only loans I have taken are for my home and my car.

But, I work with businesses all the time, where the way the contract is structured is based upon benchmarks - many IT contracts are not time and materials, but for a finished products. Those contracts now would be difficult to honor for the vendor if there was not access to bridge capital.

Farmers often borrow money to purchase seed for the next seasons crop.

Gas stations buy gas on credit, because very few would have the cash on hand to advance the costs of thousands of gallons of gas.

If you use a credit card to put off a purchase knowing that your pay check will come in before the bill is due, you are in the very same boat some of these businesses are in.

This is not just sticking it to those who have money and lost it in the stock market. The entire structure of this economy is built on the free flow of capital.

And, the apparent glee some of you are taking at the prospect of an economic meltdown is somewhat surprising.

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 12:05am

My uncle never borrowed for seed and gas stations get their credit from the oil companies and/or jobbers, not banks and especially not investment banks.

and while everyone has their panties in a knot about this the Fed has made $650 billion in credit available...

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 12:26am

You seem to think none of this is related, and this is limited to investment banks. It is not.

The cost of getting loans have increased already and lines of credit across all industries have contracted.

And, I was speaking of independent gas stations. They are often extended credit under long-term contracts with fuel wholesalers, because a tanker truck of gas is now upwards of $30,000, and very few independents have that kind of money on hand to advance. If the distributors cannot get a line of credit from their bank, how are they going to provide one downstream?

If you do not see that the economic interdependence not only nationally, but internationally, then I am wasting my time and effort.

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 12:34am

I know very well that everything is interconnected. What I know and you don't seem to realize is that the general populous of the US outside of the cushy little sectors surrounding NYC and DC is tapped out. If the housing market levels off at a 35% decline there will be an estimated 23.6 million homeowners with zero or negative equity. YOU don't understand we've been feeling this for a long time already because Wall Street and the finance industry, with BushCo's distinct lack of foreign trade policy resulting in multiple record-setting trade deficits, have already vampired everything they can from us the unwashed masses. We've already had to adjust to the reality of no more credit available.

Why do you think GM drew down every bit of every open credit line they had the other day? They want that cash in their accounts so that they don't lose a cent of cushion. It certainly wasn't because they're cash poor (at least not yet). Ford is also holding as much cash as they can. They are both major global companies. They saw this coming and prepared, as did others. Right now either you prepared and have cash (good business) or you're screwed (bad business). Updated On: 9/30/08 at 12:34 AM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 12:45am

I appreciate it completely. Trust me.

But, I also understand that if you think this is the bottom, and things cannot get worse, then you are sorely mistaken.

Things are bad. But they can get much worse. I guess I would like to prevent that, and you are OK with a total collapse.

So be it.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 12:47am

Papa, I get so confused when you call Gimpy "mac." It just ain't right to compare him to an elegant fully functioning computer that just works.

"To bad Bammy & his buddies from Acorn &other such organizations won't get the blame for pushing banks to lower standards to the point loans were being given out to individuals who simply could"

Roxy, two I-words for you today. Illiterate and Insane. Funny how community organizing isn't valid experience for twits like you but all of a sudden it's powerful enough to have caused the economic collapse that is happening around us. Nothing to do with the 35 years of deregulation championed by the party you pretend you're not a member of, no no, it was friggin ACORN.

[LePetiteFromage]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 12:49am

Updated On: 1/13/09 at 12:49 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 1:04am

Oh it's ACORN's fault you know. To borrow the words of Diana Morales: JESUS CHRIST.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 1:04am

Hey. My job is secure, and I have no credit card debt. And, I sold a vast portion of my investments a year ago to come up with a large down payment on my townhouse (so I could get a fixed interest rate and affordable payments).

I think that some in Wall Street deserve to be in jail for what they did, as do government officials who failed spectacularly in their obligations to serve the public.

That does not mean I want to see a complete economic meltdown. I don't want to put us back that much more from recovery.

But hey, take your vengeance. Get your pound of flesh. Just make sure that you pay for everything wish cash.

Somewhere across America, thousands of noses are lost, cut off in spite from angry faces.

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 1:15am

It's pretty arrogant to assume no local economies exist without a major dependence on Wall Street. There are state banks and credit unions that are well capitalized and there are some areas that have actively promoted their local economies over the national major corporations. In the major city near me there's only one national chain grocery store, the rest are mom and pop shops.

F*CK Wall Street. Think local first.
Business Alliance for Local Living Economies

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 1:19am

Robert Reich, who says things in ways I can understand, is on MSNBC with David Gregory right now.

He says the most comforting words he can say are that this is not economic armageddon. He says there will be a bailout, but things are going to be tough for people who need credit for at least a year with the bailout, five years if it doesn't happen. But he thinks it will.

[LePetiteFromage]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 1:23am

Updated On: 1/13/09 at 01:23 AM

[RadiGal2]

Posted: 9/30/08 at 2:38am

The entire Arizona Congressional delegation voted against it. Interestingly enough we have 2 of the most conservative members of the GOP and 1 of the most liberal among the entire house...they have rarely agreed on a thing in 2 years but today from one of my mentors, Raul Grijalava, to Jeff Flake and John Shadegg, all eight voted against it! Not to mention I just heard that a poll report will coming out tomorrow that indicates that Arizona in indeed play, confirmed by the news that McCain opened two new campaign offices right here in Arizona!

Hee haw.