Bailout fails

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:10pm

From Salon.com:

Wow, a stunner: Looks like bailout bill is going down. As of now, it's 227 nay, 206 aye.

Will be interesting to see which Democrats, 95 of them, voted nay. There were more than an enough Republicans voting aye (65) to compensate for some majority party defections, but not nearly 100 of them.

Meanwhile, the Dow is down over 450 points, going as low as down 680 at one point.

Geez: It's like the country is coming unhinged right before our eyes.

Note, however, that it looks like they're pulling the old GOP majority maneuver and holding the vote open. Maybe Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer, who clearly miscalculated before bringing it to the floor, can twist some arms at the last minute.

[Mamie]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:12pm

Sorry BB. I was typing as you posted this.

CNN's take is that it's primarily a statement on the Bush Administration. They've screamed wolf so many times in the past that all proved to be false that now nothing they say is believed.

2nd edit - the market is starting to come back up a little. They know that this isn't ended. Suporters are working on changes to make it pass.

Updated On: 9/29/08 at 02:12 PM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:14pm

So does this mean I DO have to pay off my student loans or I don't? I am so confuzzled.

[KrissySim]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:18pm

it's not really so bad. I lived in the Russia, Belarus and Lithuania and visited other former Soviet Republics just after the collapse of the Soviet Union and I was able to navigate, as were most people I knew. The situation in America will not get that bad. The economy is going through a rough patch, but the Constitution is still intack as well as the system of government.

America has a long way to go before it reaches a total collapse like the USSR. It won't happen here.

[javero]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:19pm

I predict that Nancy Pelosi will not be the Speaker of the House for too much longer. Heads were bound to roll any way you sliced it. The search for a fallguy(gal) is already underway.

All 435 seats in the House are up for grabs come Nov. Those brave souls that voted yea will rue this day.

Updated On: 9/29/08 at 02:19 PM

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:21pm

I have a feeling we'll all have plenty to rue.

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:23pm

Does anyone have nice camping equipment they would like to trade for canned food?

[KrissySim]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:34pm

When the Soviet Union collapsed the Ruble crashed in value. When people were paid they quickly transferred their cash into German Marks or USA dollars because they held their value. By the end of the month the Ruble would hold only 1/10th of it's value from the start of the month. You could not save money.

People with extra cash may want to think of converting it into Euros or opening a European bank account. That's where I'm transferring most of my extra USA dollars. Consider other assets that will retain their value.

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:44pm

I think Brdlwyr has the right idea- put your money in canned food (and maybe rifles).

[Auggie27]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:47pm

There's Roy Blount traipsing out to decry the sudden ugly partisnship that's muddying the previous crystal waters, as if this complex issue and its complex connection to the Bush regime can be simplified in terms of which side of the asile one is on. What a week we have in store.

The dow continues to hover around 500 down, but there's an hour plus left.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:47pm

"The economy is going through a rough patch, but the Constitution is still intack as well as the system of government."

You should read Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" if you want to gain a deeper understanding on whether the Constitution is still intact or the system of government.

Barring that, I urge EVERYONE who cares to listen to the interview Klein did with Stephanie Miller at the link below.

And pass the link on.


Naomi Klein "Shock Doctrine"

[Roscoe]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:50pm

"put your money in canned food (and maybe rifles). "

Would Jesus want us to have rifles?

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:53pm

Namo, I listed to that same interview. She also on Bill Maher a couple of weeks ago.

I think she speaks a lot of truth.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:54pm

My dad has been advising for two or three years to invest in Euros. I did move half of my 401(k) investments to foreign stock.

Thanks for that link, Namo.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:55pm

It's frightening.

[KrissySim]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 2:59pm

FindingNamo , thanks for the link. Looks like an interesting book. But I'll wager this won't be like the collapse of the USSR.

BTW, most of my money is already in Euros, but I will transfer some today.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 3:00pm

But with the European markets dipping as well, does it matter?

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 3:02pm

The Euro is still stronger than the dollar. I guess one just has to wait and see.

Anyone want to place bets on how long until the McCain campaign is put on hold again to avoid Thursday's debate?

[KrissySim]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 3:04pm

What happens here will affect the European market, but I do think the European market is and will continue to be stronger for a while.

I already have bank accounts in Europe so the process of shifting money is easy for me.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 3:05pm

Could someone explain to me how this relates to the Crash of 87, if at all? I was just a tyke, so I don't have any recollection. But I recently brushed up on it and found that the Dow plunged 508 points on Black Monday (Oct. 19), which was almost double that of '29. It all came down to budget/trade deficits. Of course, the market recovered, but the '90s saw a reduction of expenditure. Anyway, I can't wrap my head around the current situation.

Updated On: 9/29/08 at 03:05 PM

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 3:13pm

It's Pelosi's FAULT!!!!!!


From Salon.com:



WASHINGTON -- Even before the House killed a Wall Street bailout, Republicans had decided they knew who to blame.

"Jesus Christ, Pelosi's speech torpedoed this thing," a senior House Republican aide e-mailed me. "What was she thinking?"

By the time the gavel fell on the vote, that had turned from a quip into a talking point. Republican leaders accused House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of "poisoning" the debate over the bill with partisanship. "During this whole process, the tone in the room was so much better than the tone outside the room," Republican whip Roy Blunt, of Missouri, told reporters. Blunt was the House GOP's lead negotiator on the bill. "We worked together well to try to come up with a compromise, and every time you turn on television or read an article about the press reports of what the other side was saying, it was all about how either the Republicans were unpatriotic or were there too late or whatever."

What did Pelosi say that drove Republicans to ignore the pleas of their leaders and the White House to vote the bill down? Most of her floor speech was pretty harmless, the sorts of Main Street/Wall Street cliches that both sides have been throwing around all week. She talked up bipartisanship and said Republicans had joined them on some important points. There was this one section that probably didn't please too many conservatives:

"Today, we will act to avert this crisis, but informed by our experience of the past eight years with the failed economic leadership that has left us left capable of meeting the challenges of the future. We choose a different path. In the new year, with a new Congress and a new president, we will break free with a failed past and take America in a new direction to a better future."

But honestly, that doesn't explain why only 65 Republicans voted for the bill. Pelosi had, at one point, been looking for 100 Republicans to join a majority of Democrats to pass it; instead, 133 of them voted against it. Republican leaders Pelosi failed to bring enough Democrats to pass the legislation, but if Blunt and John Boehner and their colleagues in Republican leadership had done what Pelosi did -- and gotten a majority of their caucus to support the bill -- it would have passed easily. Blunt said he expected 12 more votes from the GOP caucus; the bill would have failed by one vote if that had happened.
― Mike Madden

[The Boy From Ohio]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 3:16pm

I'm lost. Will this not cause some major backlash for the Repubs.? No one wants to give money to Wall Street. But as people's savings/investments crash, and the Repubs. already being blamed for this bad economy, I don't get why they would not vote for this.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 3:18pm

This is not the time to play partisan politics or to make any statement about an administration. We have elections for that.

This is about Americans.

Damn fools.

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/29/08 at 3:20pm

"Does anyone have nice camping equipment they would like to trade for canned food?"

don't trade - share both

If average Americans band together it we'll get through. Wall Street people don't grow crops, don't manufacture hard goods, really have little to barter.

And this exemplifies why the idea of a 'service based new economy' is such an unsustainable farce.

Posted: 9/29/08 at 3:21pm

It's not going to matter whose fault it is if we're all out foraging for acorns and wild mushrooms.

And SM2, I'll look for some history for you- but meantime look at the drop as it relates to a percentage- that gives you a better picture. The crash or 29 or 87 looks smaller because the drop was a smaller amount- but so was the market.

Updated On: 9/29/08 at 03:21 PM