Biphobia in the gay community.Has anyone expierenced it?- Page 8

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 1:58am

You have absolutely no way to back up that claim, Namo.

ETA: And even if it was true, what's your point?

Updated On: 6/9/07 at 01:58 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 2:07am

My point is nobody on the recieving end of a fist has ever heard, "Take that you bi! And that!"

"And to all those who say bisexuality doesn't really exist, your ignorance is just as bad as people who say homosexuality is a choice. Just as bad."

No, not "just as bad; just as bad" at all. More homosexual people have experienced "bisexual people" who come out as "gay" a few years down the line than ANY person who thinks homosexuality is a choice has actually seen evidence of that in their day to day experience.

And another thing, there may be some RESENTMENT in the gay community (which is not "phobia" but a response to a very real experience) over bisexuals who coast thru their lives taking part in all the rights afforded them by heterosexual privlege and then enjoy the fruits of the work of the gay community when they feel like dipping a toe into the waters of their bisexuality.

And THAT'S a problem that's not on the shoulders of the gay community.

[romantico]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 9:33am

Whoa, I forgot all about this thread. I have been bi-bashed but not in a violent way like being beaten. I've had people I have known for years who I thought knew me and liked me turn away because there is that chance I may fall for a girl and I "just can not be trusted."Since this post I have decided not to open up fully about my sexuality unless I have to. Its not worth it.There is biphobia on this board and no one here can say that I am in anyway shape or form homophic. If you want to push me over the edge just show me a story of hatred towards the gay community or any harm coming to my gay brothers and sisters.I do agree agree with Namo a little about the resentment vs. the phobia and I will admit I see more of the resentment rather than the phobia and maybe thats a poor choice of words on my part. However, I have been looked down on and turned away from invites and events by gays just because of my sexual orientation. I must ask, how is THAT any different than heterosexuals discriminating agaisnt gays (homophobia)?I rate myself 70% gay 30% straight. Some will argue that NO ONE is 100% gay or straight. Heres to another 10 pages to this thread!!!

Updated On: 6/9/07 at 09:33 AM

[romantico]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 9:55am

DEBUNKING BISEXUAL MYTHS:





Bisexuality Defined: A person who is sexually attracted to and engages in sensual or sexual relationships with people of either sex. A bisexual person may not be equally attracted to both sexes, and the degree of attraction may vary over time.


Myth: Bisexuals have to like both men and women equally
Fact: There is no right or wrong way to be bisexual. You are the person who determines your sexuality. If you only date girls but are also attracted to guys, you can be bisexual. The same goes for people who date guys, but still like girls.
Some people believe that your sexuality is always changing. If you are bisexual, you could be attracted to men and women at different points in your life. It is the individual you find attractive, not their gender.


Myth: Bisexuals are promiscuous, they can’t hold down a committed monogamous relationship
Fact: News flash: a bisexual can fall in love and hold down a relationship. Being bisexual might mean you feel attracted to guys and girls, but it doesn’t give you license to be unfaithful to your partner, or to expect him/her to accept another person in to your love life. Relationships still have the same rules.


Myth: Bisexual people are just playing around, they can choose to be straight
Fact: Can a gay person “choose” to be straight? Can I choose to have a different eye colour? You don’t choose your sexual orientation, you just feel it, be you straight, gay or bi. There’s a difference between being straight and falling in love with a person of the opposite sex and being bi and doing so. In the latter case, this doesn’t mean that they aren’t attracted to people of the same sex still or that they aren’t bisexual. You aren’t turned straight.


Myth: Bisexual people are just denying that they are gay
Fact: Being bisexual is different to being lesbian or gay. However, because your sexuality can change over time, it is possible to be bisexual for a while and then to be gay or straight. But most consider themselves bisexual for their whole lives and they tend not to change the category from one relationship to the next.


Myth: Bisexuality is only a phase.
Fact: Is being straight only a phase? Is being gay only a phase? For years the gay community has challenged heterosexuals who publicly state that homosexuality is only a phase. Bisexuals face the same generalization from both the gay and straight community. Many bisexuals are completely in touch with their emotions and desires for members of both sexes and often feel limited by the thought of attraction to only a man or woman. Emotional connections often take precedence when bisexuals pursue a potential partner. Bisexuality is just as much of a natural preference as homosexuality and heterosexuality.


Myth: Bi people have to choose to be either straight or gay
Fact: Bisexuals are attracted to both men and women on both an emotional and physical level. Some “lean straight” (meaning they prefer a member of the opposite sex, but same sex partners are always an option) and others “lean gay” (which means they prefer members of the same sex, but would consider a relationship with a member of the opposite sex). Nonetheless, they are not simply gay or straight and definitely do not have to choose.


Myth: Bisexual people are sexually confused.
Fact: A common misconception in both the gay and heterosexual communities is that bisexuals are sexually confused and cannot make up their minds which sex they like. However, that’s the whole point- bisexuals are attracted to both sexes and are in many cases more clear about their sexuality than most others.


Myth: Bisexual people will never marry.
Fact: Alongside the thought that bisexual men and women are sexually confused is the myth that they will never be able to settle on a partner of any sex. In many cases bisexuals put a lot of emphasis on emotional connections with either sex. This in mind, the opportunity for them to find a life partner is just as viable as it is for a heterosexual or homosexual. However, since same-sex marriage isn’t legal in most places of the world, only a heterosexual marriage in most places will be recognized by law.


Myth: Bisexual people are sexually promiscuous.
Fact: Bisexuals are no more promiscuous than any others. Promiscuity (or frequent sex with multiple partners) depends on the individual irrespective of their sexual preference. However, liking both sexes increases a bisexual’s chances of a sexual encounter or potential relationship (by shear numbers alone).


Myth: Bisexual people spread sexually transmitted diseases.
Fact: Bisexual people are no more likely to carry HIV/AIDS or other STDs than gay or straight people.
Another one I saw someplace or other (about me) was that since I had some failed relationships with females, I “turned gay”. Now that’s a load of ignorant crap that doesn’t deserve any further thought.
“It is important to remember that bisexual, gay, lesbian, and heterosexual are labels created by a homophobic, biphobic, heterosexist society to separate and alienate us from each other. We are all unique; we don’t fit into neat little categories. We sometimes need to use these labels for political reasons and to increase our visibilities.”

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 1:35pm

"I have been bi-bashed but not in a violent way like being beaten."

Well, see, that's where I have very big problems with the de-evolution of that term. To be gay bashed is to meet with violence, physical violence, for being perceived as gay. Unfortunately, it has also come to including having one's feelings hurt on a MySpace page because one doesn't like the "right" kind of music or an entire scandal erupting because somebody called somebody a name.

It may be rude, it may be cruel, but it is NOT being bashed.

[romantico]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 3:06pm

So, you don't think if I were to go to a gay bar with friends of mine and we came out and saw a group of redneck's shouting gay slurs our way and I was beaten to a pulp that would not be the same? I'd be a bisexual who was gaybashed. There, does that wording please you? JESUS! Why nitpick over bi bash/gay bash? It makes it sound like that IF a bisexual were bashed for being bisexual it would be cool with you. Can we agree that being bashed or beaten because of one's sexuality is just wrong? Would you be okay if a group of homosexuals in Provincetown beat a heterosexual man while waiting for him to come out of Hooters because they hate "breeders?"

I mention this because I could so easily be targeted because of my gay friends. I go to the movies with them, to the mall, and out to dinner. I have actually been with friends who have been taunted and even followed all due to the fact that we are not heterosexual. While I'm getting my ass kicked I doubt if I mention to my attacker that I am a bisexual, that will get me off the hook Namo

I say lets stop the F*CK labeling and admit that discrimination or hate due to one's sexual orientation is just wrong.

I could be wrong, but it sounds like your just knitpicking this whole thing and want the gay bashing all to yourselves and us Bisexuals and transgenders need to find a different street corner to set up our soapbox and bitch!

Updated On: 6/9/07 at 03:06 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 5:22pm

Yeah, that's my entire point, thank you for making it. My point is when bisexuals go off on the "Oh, boo hoo hoo, sometimes some members of the gay community hurt my feelings and that's biphobia and it's just as bad as homophobia and maybe even worse because gay people should know better" it ignores the fact that it's HOMOPHOBIA at the root of violence against gay people and that alone shows how "biphobia" in fact does not compare.

If bisexual people want to stand in political solidarity with gay people, that's great. That does not include slipping off to what looks like to the world, personally and politically, as a totally mainstream heterosexual lifestyle with some discreet homosex on the side. The closer you come to accessing and enjoying heterosexual privlege both emotionally and publically, the more the burden of proof of the political commitment falls on the shoulder of the bisexual.

Updated On: 6/9/07 at 05:22 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 6:03pm

so instead of identifying and attacking the real problem--that there is a double standard in our society over how a heterosexual couple is treated compared to a homosexual couple, let's blame the bisexuals.

the common goal for all of us is to stop discrimination based on sexual orientation. that includes homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, and even people who don't want to be sexual at all. it just shouldn't be an issue.

I have yet to hear one bonafide, legitimate defense of anti-bisexuality. it's the same bigotry and ignorance as homophobia.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 6:12pm

I didn't say blame at all.

"it's the same bigotry and ignorance as homophobia."

And I made an effort above to lay out why I think it is not the same at all.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 6:23pm

and racism is worse that homophobia...

I love when bigotry becomes a pissing contest.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 6:48pm

That's not what I am saying.

What I am saying is that even the title of this thread does what you're angry about and the point I have been trying to make is your point?

Biphobia in the gay community?


"[S]o instead of identifying and attacking the real problem," to use your frame, which is homophobia in straight culture, we're now going to look at how sad it is that the GAY community oppresses bisexuals. This is why I say it's up to bisexuals. Bisexuals have to firmly and directly stand in solidarity with gay and lesbian people in HETEROSEXUAL culture, to make a big noise against heterosexism. Because it's all about the homophobia in straight culture.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 7:01pm

I get your point, Namo. And I personally was 't trying to say that "biphobia in the gay community" is as bad as homophobia. (But as Jerby said, is it a pissing contest?)

And I agree that some of it comes back to homophobia in straight (mainstream?) culture.

But there seems to be, just from responses to this thread even, some unsettling biphobia in general. Romantico states that he has gay friends who rejected him after discovering he was bi. Why is that okay?

And some very intelligent posters in this thread have stated that they do not believe that a bisexual can be monogomous. That, perhaps, is the most unsettling thing that I have read in this thread. And that, saying that a bisexual person cannot be monogomous or refusing to be in a relationship with a bisexual because they "cant be monogomous", that is similar to people saying that homosexuality is a choice and people who assume that gay people will sleep with ANYONE of the same gender. It's ignorant and wrong.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 7:08pm

"And I agree that some of it comes back to homophobia in straight (mainstream?) culture."

No. ALL of it does. And homophobia is the result of sexism, a culture responding negatively, often violently, to people who have the temerity to engage in sexual behaviors reserved for their "proper" opposite genders. Which is where the connection to gay and feminist liberation exists.*

You know what, people reject people all the time for all sorts of reasons. It may hurt, but it's "okay" because people have a right to decide if people are going to be in their lives or not. By now, I would assume that most people would have learned that life, very often, is just not fair.

The things that you mention, the monogamy thing for instance, may be examples of fallacies that people believe, but I can not get up in arms defending what is self evident, "Hey hey! Ho Ho! Bi's can be monogamous so get off their back!" when the real work is what jerby points out: "the common goal for all of us is to stop discrimination."

* Which is why I would LOVE for some big mouthed, engaging bisexual man to become a talking head for women's reproductive health, equal pay for equal work, and gay and lesbian liberation. It'd be TERRIFIC if that would happen. But the closer one is to heterosexual male privlege, the less likely that sort of thing is to happen.

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 7:26pm

Well, my ex-boyfriend broke up with me, and then he started dating girls. Now, that can get a little weird. However, after I realized that he really was bi, I got over it.

I don't think there is real bi-phobia...I think it is just that we hope that people aren't trying to cover up their homosexuality with the easier-to-cope-with bisexuality. Our end state is people's freedom, I just think sometimes people get a little prescriptive with it.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 7:29pm

make a f*cking choice you indecisive pissants!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/10/07 at 1:00am

I'm pretty sure there's a flashing rainbox FAQ in your future. And yes, that's a "Q."

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/10/07 at 1:03am

You know, I used to think FAQ was shorthand for "F*CK you."

[thesinger]

Posted: 6/10/07 at 8:04am

I think romantico needs to see the difference between biophobia, and gays not wanting to sleep with bi's. Biophobia can either be resentment (from gays who have gone through it already) or can just be much of a similar thing to homophobia from straights. But, however, you cannot call a gay man biophobic if he does not want to sleep with a bi man [just the same as you can't call a straight man homophobic if he doesn't want to sleep with a gay man]. They may have a sexual preference in common, but depending on the person, and I am not making a general statement, the bi man could be feeling deprived of another gender and feel tempted to cheat on their partner [though it isn't as severe, it is much the same emotion a pedophile feels when he is deprived of a child].

However, depending on the person, this person may never feel this, though you cannot deny that it does not happen. Sometimes gays feel that it WILL happen and don't learn to meet the person. Being bi is very tough, but it can be simpler to have another partner who is bi that will understand you better. But I don't think you can blame gay people for not wanting to sleep with bi people - it is a different sexuality altogether.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 6/10/07 at 10:28am

romantico, "friends" who turn away from you for this were never friends to begin with. People who do not want to be your friend because of this are not worthy of your friendship.

One thing I think people learn as they get older is what they will and will not accept in becoming someones friend......and someone who brings my sexuality into it is not worthy of my friendship.....

Discrimination of any kind is usually a GIANT red flag when it comes to who I want to be friends with

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/10/07 at 10:50am

romantico---Thanks for your posts. I admit it's difficult for me to understand bisexuality, not because I don't believe its an innate orientation. I do. But a bisexual (by definition) is saying he/she is attracted to both sexes. "Both" is plural, as you know... and since I personally choose (yes this one's a CHOICE) monogamy, I couldn't find myself entering into any sort of a monogamous relationship with a bisexual. Friends? Sure! Romantic relationship? No.

I went out on a few dates with a psychiatrist years ago, who told me he was a bisexual. He was a great guy, but I couldn't go further with him. I didn't "hate" him for who he was, but I also didn't want to invite that complexity of plural attraction into my romantic life, which hopefully would end (for me) with a monogamous relationship.

But it wasn't prejudice... any more than someone who doesn't like blonds won't go out with a blond. It was a preference on my part of what I would or wouldn't accept as a potential romantic partner.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 6/10/07 at 11:45am

But, best, you're assuming that a bisexual needs sex with both men and women. It's not a need at all. It's a possibility because they are attracted to both genders. I don't see why it would be any different or harder for a bisexual to be monogomous once they find the one person they want to be with then it would be for a heterosexual or a homosexual.

Saying a person is bisexual doesn't mean they need sex with both genders. It just means they can get attracted to both sexes. But it isn't a necessity. There isn't an annual quota of men and women they need to be with.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/10/07 at 11:50am

No, priest, you are wrong. I am equally attracted to latinos and blond twinks. I have to have both in equal amounts. Therefore, it is impossible for me to be monogamous. And whenever I date a latino, I find myself doing blond twinks on the DL. And whenever I'm dating a blond twink, I'm off doing latinos on the DL.

It's just impossible for me to contain my sexual attractions to one person. One human being. One soul.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/10/07 at 11:50am

Really? How dull. So I guess bisexuals really are more like straight people than the gays.

(No offense to my many close straight friends who are anything but dull. You're the exceptions, darlings!)

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/10/07 at 11:51am

how did we get back to biophobia?

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/10/07 at 12:09pm

StickToPriest---I see you're point, and maybe I just haven't met the right bisexuals.

My admittedly limited experience was with guys who were living both lifestyles at once (they had a set of straight friends and potential romantic choices there, and a set of gay friends with a different pool of romantic possibilities, and never the twain shall meet).

And clearly they were NOT focusing on one (monogamous) approach to their romantic lives. You can't have "both" AND monogamy. It's a choice. Pick one. If this guy who was interested in me was focusing his life in one direction, I might have given it more thought. But his actions were speaking louder than his words. He was living in both social scenes, not one.

Since monogamy IS a choice, he should have at least decided (if he really was looking for a monogamous relationship) to concentrate on one "world" at a time. If he couldn't choose a gender (which is roughly half the planet), how could he come close to choosing just one soul mate out of that gender?