Biphobia in the gay community.Has anyone expierenced it?

[romantico]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:08pm

As a bisexual I would like to open a dialogue to the homosexuals on Broadwayworld.I have noticed that some of my gay friends are bitter & cold towards me because of my bisexuality.before I go any further I'd like to share a little about me to better understand my situation.

I thought I was 100% straight until I entered junior high.I looked at guys but in my mind dismissed it as a phase or would look at their bodies & say 'I wish I had his thighs or abs or butt".I was really confused because I liked girls as well.This continued into my high school years as well. It wasn't til I was 22 or 23 when I began having feelings towards my best friend.I noticed he looked at me differently, I thought he was the most beautiful man I had ever seen, and we had alot in common.(My gaydar was going off bigtime when I was around him) Only two problems. He had a girlfriend & I began having feelings towards his girlfriend. After talking to some gay friends about this they determined that I must be bisexual.I told his girlfriend how I felt.(Even thought she wasn't interested) I told him how I felt about his girlfriend & he didn't seem to be bothered about it.However, I decided to tell him how I felt towards him. Big mistake. I haven't spoken to since.He said alot of mean hateful things to me. I think he may have been gay or bi but just in denial.He said I was confused & sick & being gay is just wrong.

I feel I am more picky about women than I am with men. Perhaps I lean more gay because of this.However, I think women are better friends whom I can trust more.

Most my gay friends are cool with my bisxuality but don't understand it.I got into it with one friend who says I am secretly gay but don't want to admit it so I label myself as bi.This made me so angry!I told him I didn't choose to be bi & he said bisexuals only enforce the argument to those gay critics that homosexuality is a choice. He feels we are shady & can not be trusted 100%. I am consider a traitor because I sleep with the opposite sex and don't understand the gay lifestyle fully.It was also revealed that we are promiscuous & will sleep with anything that moves.I couldn't win. Until finally we had a real deep conversation.We went out for a drvie & we drove for hours. He got alot off his chest as did I. I think we both learned alot from one another & the long talk helped us know each other better than we did before.Turns out he didn't think bi's could be trusted.(he also thinks we're greedy assholes )He said he would never get involved with a guy who was bi because he feels if a woman came along a bi would just bail. He didn't think bisexuals could commit.(I'm not fully committed to the team so I can't be trusted I guess)Again, I told him that was a myth. I told him I would love to find SOMEONE to fall in love with who understood me.He said as a bisexual in this day and age it would never happen.Well, that freaked me out a little because for a brief momment I believed him.

So, should I be dishonest on who I am? IF I meet a really great guy who's gay, should I hide my bisexuality? If I meet a woman who I like should I just 'butch it up' & play straight? No one has stood up for gays & gay rights like I have.I have zero tolerance or patience for anyone in my life who is homophobic & voice it loudly whenever I encounter it,yet i am still looked down to most gay people becasue of who I am.I mean, are gay people who discriminate agains bi's any better than the homophobes?Should I only date bisexual men & biwomen?

All opinions are welcome!

Updated On: 9/5/06 at 12:08 PM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:23pm

Bisexuality is definitely one of the more difficult orientations to understand, I think. I used to believe that bisexuals were just gay people who were trying to maintain some sense of "normalcy" in their lives because they were not totally comfortable with being 100% gay. I no longer feel that way. It will be hard to find some one to accept that you like to sleep with both sexes from time to time. If you ever want a lasting relationship you must not keep it from your partner. If you find someone who accepts it and is comfortable with it you have a chance at real happiness. But if you hide the fact you are just setting yourself up for disaster.
I think it is somewhat easier to be totally Gay than to be Bisexual, so you you may have a difficult time of it. But just be honest and open and when you face people who don't believe there is such a thing as Bisexuality, remember it is their problem, not yours.

Good luck.

[dramaparoxysm23]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:25pm

I wish I had better advice for you than telling you to be true to yourself. Anyone worth being with will accept (and love) you for who you are.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:30pm

what Sueleen said. Exactly. Word for word. Put a lot more eloquently.

Be yourself.

[EverythingIsRENT]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:33pm

No offense, but I honestly don't believe bisexuality exists. My experience with every guy i've met who told me he was 'bisexual' sooner or later came out as totally gay. Which is awesome. I just think as bisexuality as 'trying to have the best of both worlds' or something. I just haven't heard of anyone who is TRUELY a bisexual. Until I see someone like that, I just don't see it existing *shrug* But be yourself and all that good stuff ,whatever makes you happy!!

[DG]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:39pm

E.I Rent - simply because you haven't encountered it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I daresay there's quite a bit in this world that you don't have first-hand experience with.

One of our best friends is a wonderfully happily married man with two children - who also takes semi-regular vacations alone to Amsterdam, Berlin or wherever to enjoy some 'alone time' that isn't quite so alone. All things are possible for those who wish to accept them.

Good luck to you. It's not an easy path, as you obviously already know.

BTW - you deserved better from your 'friend', no matter what orientation he chooses to acknowledge within himself.
Updated On: 9/5/06 at 12:39 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:42pm

I don't buy that it doesn't exist. I do buy that it's a label overused and overextended -- and that probably more people claim to be bi than actually are, perhaps while they're still confused or experimenting or just not totally comfortable.

It's also, sometimes, a matter of semantics. I know there are people who assume that bisexuality is denoted by finding both sexes pleasurable in the sense that you are not repulsed by the opposite sex; but is being gay finding one more attractive than the other? Is bisexuality finding neither UNattractive, but leaning more toward one side? I think a lot of the tanglement comes from varying definitions, honestly. Can you only be full-on gay if you're a male and you find the female body totally repulsive, and if you think a woman is beautiful, you're immediately bisexual? Is a man who has a wife and sleeps with men on the side bisexual, or totally gay and in the closet? I don't know the answers; I don't know that there ARE universal answers. But, I do believe in the existence of legitimate bisexuality, in some cases, in some form, under the notion that I believe there are people legitimately torn and not just confused, and can be fully satisfied not by having one or the other.

What you haven't experienced may very, very well exist, EIR, and I think that's a little naive.

Updated On: 9/5/06 at 12:42 PM

[Calvin]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:44pm

Another BWW-er (whom I'll let interject his own opinion if he sees fit) and I were just talking about this yesterday, in fact.

I've always found it hypocritical of gay men who refuse to accept that bisexuality can exist because they're often approaching it from the same viewpoint of the fundies who hate them so much. I can see where it comes from, as it might seem like betrayal. And there's no doubt that there are some who cling to the bisexual label who probably are not very bisexual at all. But that doesn't mean -- well, from this point, I'm basically echoing what Sueleen already said.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:48pm

There's the whole Kinsey scale... some people are 1 (totally straight) and some are 6 (totally gay) and MOST people fall somewhere in between.

[romantico]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:51pm

Well, thanks for all the replies.Hopefully, this will help some understand where I am coming from. I have been intimate with both males and females.I have enjoyed both experiences the same.If I enjoyed one the least it would be easier for me I know.If I were gay I would be out & my life would be a whole lot easier to deal with.I also know guys who get married then divorce and turn out to be gay.Some are really gay hoping a woman & children will "turn them straight".Others are just in denial.Have not met any guys who are bi and married and have flings. Thats something I would not do or be intersted in. The same friend I mentioned above also said if I ever wanted to get married to a woman it would have to be a marriage of convenience (she would have to be a beard for me I guess)

By the way didn't Gore Vidal say "No one is 100% gay or 100% straight" or was it someone else?

Updated On: 9/5/06 at 12:51 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:51pm

There is a simple reason for what you experience as "biphobia" among gay men.

Most gay men who identify as gay experienced bisexuality as a transitional phase in their coming out. They may feel residual anger at having lied to themselves for as long as they did. They may feel guilt for having lied to family and girlfriends for as long as they did. They often project that onto anyone who identifies as bisexual, thginking that if they were "phony" for so long, you must be phony too.

You may very well be constitutionally bisexual. You may very well be a gay men who is still unable to accept his homosexuality. Only time will tell.

But there is nothing you can do to prevent gay male friends from reacting that way. Be true to yourself and have integrity in your dealings with men and women. But don't get on a soapbox about "biphobia." It's just another way to create victim status and a new us-versus-them situation.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:53pm

there is sadly a great amount of biphobia coming from both gays and straights. it confounds me, but it stems from all of the fears you listed in your post, romantico. you can even find a very heated debate on a bww thread in my bww blog.

there is great ignorance on the subject of bisexuality despite all the research of kinsey and others and the fact that bisexuality is all around us (anne heche, angelina jolie, david bowie, iggy pop, madonna, sandra bernhard, etc etc etc.) sexuality is a spectrum. and a bisexual is merely someone who could fall in love or lust with either sex. bisexuals can be monogamous. again-so much ignorance. and you would think gays of all people would not stand for such ignorance, but you have already listed why they do and everything and pj mentioned the other prob--a lot of gay people say bi at first.

you do have to be yourself. I don't think you should lie. your ideal mate will respect and love you for who you are. and there are many gays and straights who are not so ignorant.

I identify as gay. but the truth is I am a kinsey 5. I like some girls. that doesn't imply choice. I don't choose who I like. and I get giggles and bitchy comments from gay friends who are biphobic or who think a guy who can be fem at times can't poss be bi. (or a top.) people are so ridiculous in their generalizations. so who is the traitor?

this issue also relates to the backlash against gays and lesbians who act stereotypically straight. It comes from those who are trying to deny who they are but a prejudice forms against those butch gay men and fem gay women.

and in the end, why are people so obsessed with how others act and who they love and lust? just maddening to me.

Updated On: 9/5/06 at 12:53 PM

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:54pm

"Have not met any guys who are bi and married and have flings. Thats something I would not do or be intersted in."

That's one thing I've never understood... is that some bi-sexual people I know do use the fact that it's the 'opposite' sex to not see it as cheating. If the guy I was dating was bisexual, I would make it clear that sleeping with women while being dating me would still be cheating.

[romantico]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:58pm

Well put PALJOEY. However,I think the gay friends in my life need to realize that me & others like me are actually allies to the gay community. We both want the same thing as far as rights & equality.They need to realize we're both fighting for the same cause & we're in the same boat together. This is what frusterates me.Some friends didn't want me walking in the gay pride parade this summer because they thought I might see someone I knew & feel embarassed? WTF? I wasn't invited to a civil unuion celebration this past spring becasue I just didn't get it & it was for gays only. I missed out on a labor day cookout this past weekend because I wasn't invited in fear I would bring a woman along.This was the last straw for me. I'm pissed off. I have been a good friend to these people. I'm just venting but I know I have to ask myself some of these questions before I make new friends.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 1:02pm

EverythingisRent, I believe your experiences may be in the "let them down easy" category. Many gay men, as PJ said, will use the "Bi" excuse as a transition. They know in their hearts they are totally gay, but try to do the straight thing in the hope that it will "cure" them. When they realize that they are wrong and are in a relationship it is not too uncommon for them to declare they are Bisexual, so to not hurt you more than necessary. If these people you are talking about were boyfriends of yours it may be harder to accept the fact that they never really wanted to be with a woman in the first place. Yes, in these cases they turned out to be gay, but that does not mean true Bisexuality does not exist.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 1:06pm

you weren't invited because you might bring a woman??

that bridges into heterophobia aka reverse discrimination. very sad.

my first bf, who is now a dear friend, is married to a woman and has 3 kids. when he told his friends they were in love, he lost every single gay friend except me. WHY? hypocrites.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 1:10pm

There has historically been antipathy towards bisexual people who partake of the hard-fought-for gay community institutions, spaces and sexual culture but retreat to their socially acceptable "straight" lives and live under the umbrella of presumed heterosexuality, with all the rights and benefits that actual gay people are not given in the culture.

People are going to live as they want to live and behave as they want to behave, that's human nature. But they shouldn't expect sympathy and support from sexual outlaws if they're "passing" in their day-to-day lives.

[JailyardGuy]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 1:10pm

I think part of the root of the fear/hatred of bisexuals amongst the gay community is a fear of betrayal. No matter how much you might love us when we're in a relationship with you, some people might think "but he's also into women, and eventually he's going to want something I cannot give him, and then he will cheat on me with a woman", and they just can't deal with bisexual men.

Not all gay men have gone through the "try bi" phase...some of us have been raging, screaming polesmokers since birth; and I think that might be another part of it. Some gay men just do not understand the bisexual urges, and just want no part of it.

I personally do not care WHERE one puts it, but I do have to say that I am one of those who will not date a bisexual man (friends, of course; one-time trick, absolutely; relationship? Hell no). It is, I'm sure, wrong on many levels, and I am aware of that, I just can't do it. Part of it may be the betrayal complex (fueled by bad experiences), and part of it may be my extreme revulsion of women (sexually speaking), but I just can't get with a bi guy.

Not all of us are out to get, you, though...and you may bring a lady friend to any social event I host.

Updated On: 9/5/06 at 01:10 PM

[romantico]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 1:16pm

Maybe thats it. Maybe I am trying too hard to keep my gay friends.I thought gay men would be more understanding. this is begining to turn out not to be true. My few straight friends just don't understand me being bi & don't discuss it because it usually leads into a fight.One even said to me that I don't look or act gay. WTF? How should I take that? Another said if I like women than I can not like guys. I'm just looking for attention.I know both my gay & straight friends discuss me behind my back.Apparently I am the only bisexual in the state of Connecticut (or the only bi guy they know)

After ranting about all the above it comes down to this. Why is who I sleep with or have feelings for anyone's business?

[BroomstickBoy]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 1:16pm

From my beliefs and experience, my opinion on the matter is I don't believe male bisexuality exists. Men are fickle and only try to meddle in bisexuality because they want what women have : the ability to maintain stable relationships. Women have better luck because they would rather be with the wrong person than be alone. With men, it's the other way around.

That's my stance on the word "bisexual" , BUT I do think people should do what makes them happy regardless of what anyone else thinks (including me, so just accept my post as an OPINION).

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 1:19pm

Why is it anyone's business?

Well, you're the one who started your post with "As a bisexual...."

Something tells me you've made it people's business.

How old are you, anyway?

[Kringas]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 1:21pm

Extreme revulsion? Wow.

[romantico]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 1:22pm

I'm 28. Only thing I'm asking is why there is biphobia in the gay community. I'm not grandstanding my sex life or shoving it down anyones throats. I'm asking an honest question.

[JailyardGuy]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 1:26pm

One of the things that you will learn about the gay community is that a vast number of said "community" is about as accepting, tolerant, and understanding as an empty copper mine full of Islamic fundamentalists.

Not to cast a net across the whole kit n'caboodle, of course...a lot of 'em are pretty fantastic.

There will always be people who will accept you for whatever you are, and there will always be people who will not. Part of your journey in life is going to be accumulating the former and trying to weed out the latter...it is a neverending process, and the only way that you are going to make it happen is to always be honest, both with yourself and others.

So you're bi...a LOT of people are truly bisexual. There is nothing wrong at all with being equally attracted to men and women. Look at ancient Roman and Greek culture...certainly wasn't a problem for them! In time, you'll get comfortable with it, and you will find someone who is more than happy to be with *you*, and not your label.

Just don't expect to find them at a gay bar

[DG]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 1:30pm

"Men are fickle and only try to meddle in bisexuality because they want what women have : the ability to maintain stable relationships."

Wow. This must mean my partner and I are lesbians. Who knew.