Governor Ralph Cramden (aka Chris Christie) to NJ teachers on low pay... — Page 3

look at my post earlier in the thread about why the wage freeze does not work for teachers.

Teachers all across the country are making due with pay freezes, whether they work in your mind or not. My uncle is a head of a department, and still has 2 part time jobs. You go home and grade papers, and he takes papers with him all across the state to referee college lacrosse games 4 times a week. Why should NJ teachers exclusively be exempt from an unfortunate situation that's affecting everyone else in the public and private sectors?


To tell us we make too much is beyond insulting.

I said nothing of the sort. I was addressing the previous claim that because teachers have to pay for higher education, they deserve more salary. As I said, many career paths which require college degrees (and beyond) can make just as little, if not less, than teachers. We do not live in a society where the amount of education is directly proportionate to salary. It's not just teachers who are negatively affected. And I'm sure social workers and public defenders wish they had powerful unions to make a big PR stink over every possibility of a paycut.

Life is tough all over, as my grandfather (a former teacher) used to say.

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Updated On: 5/31/10 at 11:45 PM

"Oh please. My current salary is less than my annual college tuition was. I know someone with a masters in social work who makes less than $30,000 a year- and that's an average salary for the field. Why should this be taken into special consideration for teachers if the rest of us get screwed over just as much? "

So you arguement is that because social workers get crappy pay teachers should too? It sounds to me that you and your social worker friend deserve better pay, not that teachers should be making less.

Updated On: 5/31/10 at 12:33 PM

our neighboring district took a wage freeze then their budget got voted down...now they had to lay off more people...btw the money he said that would go to districts who took a pay freeze hasn't happened.

I work 3 jobs to pay my bills...I just want to teach, leave my pay and pension alone and I will be fine

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ghostlight, did you read YWIW's last post? That was my point that went soaring over your head.

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now he wants to cut the property tax rebate....this will hurt many senior citizens...so who is next on his scapegoat list? BTW I will take a pay cut when he does...he won't turn in his income tax info because his wife made $1.3 million dollars last year and he is still taking his salary...say what you want about Corizine but he didnt take his salary.
seniors

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Interesting article!!!



Jim Gearhart, 101.5 FM's legendary morning man and long-time observer of the Jersey political landscape, has been one of Gov. Christie's biggest cheerleaders. No more. While Gearhart didn't join harsh critics who call the governor a bully masquerading as a conservative, Gearhart says Christie talked a good game for months then threw in the towel in the battle with the NJEA, leaving those who supported Christie out on a limb all by themselves. "The clash of the titans is over, apparently,"
Gearhart told his huge audience. "Apparently the administration hasbacked down from its policies. It was disappointing to say the least. I won't sit here and try to support the policies of an administration that has turned its back on its policies."At issue is an application for a federal grant for N.J. education worth $400 million if the state is successful and the administration thinks it has a better chance at
success if the union signs off on it. It's an Obama program called "Race To The Top".

The grant application was opposed by the NJEA in January so the statemissed the deadline. The next deadline is June 1. I've looked over several analyses of the proposal. Here are some key parts:

Merit Pay: The feds say they want a plan for merit pay. The
Christie/NJEA merit pay proposal would give bonuses to schools that help disadvantaged kids close the achievement gap. The schools could volunteer for a pilot program in which half the bonus would go for school-wide improvements and the other half would go to staff to share or use for the school.

(The union has been against individual bonuses or merit pay because it
contends everyone is equal. Christie had given the impression he was for
merit pay for individuals.)

Tenure: Christie's education commissioner, Bret Schundler, wanted
teachers to lose tenure after three years of ineffective reviews. But
the union contended that state law allows district to pursue revoking
tenure after two years.

(True enough, but the union has managed to make it so expensive and
time-consuming it hardly ever happens. It has been estimated it can cost
a school district $100,000 to fire an incompetent teacher.)

Teacher Evaluations: Under the Chgristie/NJEA plan a committee made up
of educators, including representatives of the NJEA and the N.J. School
Boards Association will meet for at least a year to determine the best
way to do this.

(Why would something like that take a year?)

Seniority: The state wanted cuts to be based partly on an employee's
ability. Christie backed off the plan, so seniority is the only factor
determining who keeps the job.

(The union always insisted on seniority being the determining factor,
it's a union thing. It means many younger, and possibly more able
teachers, will lose their jobs.)

The Record of Bergen County reports local union leaders have not been
briefed on the subject, but Joe Cheff in Passaic County told the paper,
"The NJEA has a team of very bright minds. If they're satisfied then I
would be more apt to go along with it."

"The union won on all counts," an obviously frustrated Gearhart said.
"You feel like you have been made a total fool of. It's embarrassing."

Gearhart is not alone in losing faith in Christie. A teacher who voted
to take the one-year pay freeze to try to save the jobs of some
colleagues told me in an e-mail, "... I guess after listening to Jim
this morning all of us that gave up raises and benefits were the losers.
Now we need the media to let everyone know that things are back to
normal and they can now give us our raises back. Disgusted."

Some say having the two sides get together after months of fighting is a
positive thing, others say Christie blinked when push came to shove and
he really isn't the champion of the taxpayer he claims to be.

Many will look at everything he says differently from now on. This could
wind up be a double whammy for Christie. It provides an opportunity for
the Obama administration to stick it to Republican Christie and weaken
his support by denying the state the $400 million. Then he loses twice.

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In all honesty, to some extent, teachers ARE above others. Some of the other jobs being considered do not require the education and continuing education MANDATED that teachers have.

The simple fact is, jobs are given values based on societal impression. Jobs such as police, firefighters, teachers, nurses - these are essential jobs that happen to be mandated by the government, but can you really imagine society functioning without them? There are MANY jobs where the contribution to society is far less than those listed above (some that require less education) that make far more than those listed above. I don't begrudge people making what is fair -- all I'm saying is if you compare the worth of those above to some of those jobs in terms of importance, the balance of money is way out of whack.

Should those people listed lie down and say "we're not worth every penny we get and more?" Of course we shouldn't! Why should capitalist tendencies only apply to those directly involved in making money? Those employees are dependent on tax dollars because of the way society is set up because honestly, how do you measure the worth of a cop or nurse? How many lives they save? At the same time, imagine society without these people?

Teachers in other countries are looked at with deference. Here, teachers are often looked on as people who failed at other careers. It's simply not so, and teachers are simply trying to get what's their due.

The private sector didn't care about us when times were good - so now that times are bad for them, we should be "mindful" of their woes?

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Updated On: 6/1/10 at 03:07 PM

In all honesty, to some extent, teachers ARE above others.

So, someone who has a college education is ABOVE someone who doesn't? Lovely.

Teachers in other countries are looked at with deference. Here, teachers are often looked on as people who failed at other careers. It's simply not so, and teachers are simply trying to get what's their due.

But if everyone is having to tighten their belts, then is it their DUE? Teachers in NJ made a good wage. I don't believe it's unfair to ask them to take a wage freeze. No one is taking current income away. Yes, contractually, they are supposed to get a raise, but the national economy was in the toilet. It effects everyone. How can NJ teachers expect to keep getting raises when there are so many losing jobs and when the state economy is still in the crapper? If teachers refuse to take the freeze then cuts have to come from elsewhere. Christie is a pompous homophobic windbag, but in this situation, I don't think he's acting unfairly.

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I don't understand why everyone is so fixated on the wage freeze. The cuts made by Christie was so drastic that wage freezes wouldn't matter. Most of the districts that agreed to a wage freeze (I believe there were 21) STILL laid people off. And how come Christie hasn't called on the administrators to take a wage freeze?
It's not teachers being laid off..it's programs being cut, pre-K, reading programs, tutoring, math and science programs, free lunches, etc etc etc. Wage freezes are just a drop in the bucket.

Then perhaps you should apply that degree to another field if you think you aren't being paid enough for the education you chose.

That's what this thread was about, the wage freeze and "low pay." This was about that idiotic comment Christie made to the teacher complaining about the drop in the bucket. People are fixated because the teacher unions ended up looking like asses for refusing the freezes in most places. The administrative costs are out of control and THAT is what's draining the budget. I don't want to see good administrators lose their jobs either, but there are some elementary schools with four principals and the amount of money they make just seems silly. They could cut one crappy principal and keep 2 teachers in some situations.

And also, special education is a big drain, too. New Jersey has one of the best special education systems in the country and people move there for the services. The percentage of autism is higher in NJ than anywhere else in the country, only partly because of people moving. These kids have to be in the system until 21. I know a child who had to be sent to a live in hospital in Boston for five months. His mother had to be housed nearby to be there for daily behavior therapy. The cost of the care was in the millions and the school system had to cover a big portion of the bill. If a child can't be handled in a certain school district, they have to pay another system to work with him and transportation back and forth. If the kid requires a full time live in situation, that's on the district, too. I don't know if the answer lies in more federal funding, but you can't cut the services these kids need. Something just has to give somewhere.

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"In all honesty, to some extent, teachers ARE above others".

So, someone who has a college education is ABOVE someone who doesn't? Lovely.

Not at all what jasonf said, jerseygirl. eta: okay, so s/he said it while I was writing, but still, that is a true statement, to me. I'll grant that s/he choose a really poor way to put it, but a good teacher may not necessarily a good writer make. A good teacher, fireman, policeman, doctor, nurse, paramedic, even to some degree our Parks people...their jobs are more important to our children, our protection, our health, our future than other occupations are, and already they get nowhere near compensated for the sacrifice they're making to choose their careers. Yes, I think those professions should be ranked above others, both in respect and pay scale - and yes, I get that they chose their careers, knowing what it meant, but they heeded the call. They made that sacrifice, but now they are being asked for even more.

This is a small cost of living "raise" encompassing future years the teachers have already negotiated. Christie isn't asking for a wage freeze. As others have said, he's asking for a pay cut. Are you telling me you'd be okay right now with someone telling you that for the next two or three years, you"re not even going to make the same amount of money you made in the past?

"It effects everyone."

A good teacher taught me that you probably meant "It affects everyone" - and yes, it does, just as the decrease in our quality of teachers will affect everyone as good people will cease to be attracted to the field. They aren't being offered incentives other than their own desire to teach our children and better our future. Less qualified teachers will ultimately have a negative effect on our country.

I reiterate that I feel the same of fireman, policemen, social workers, etc. It is failure to these people on this level that we fail our society.

Updated On: 6/1/10 at 04:24 PM

JG2 - silly you. Didn't you know, a college education means you are entitled to earn more money, regardless of your qualifications or actual skills?