Harry Potter Book Club - Chapter 16 A Very Frosty Christmas- Page 17

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 11:12pm

Thanks.

[pndmnd]

Posted: 3/14/06 at 10:30am

Harry was quite convinced that his lessons with Dumbledore would be very different. (Trying to discount the reasons given later in the book.) Why did you think Dumbledore chose to teach Harry in this way?

I do have a reason that can't be mentioned yet, but I'll try to remember to come back to this when the time is right. I pretty much agree with both Tiff and OvertheMoon on this one. I want to add, though, that what Dumbledore is doing now is showing Harry something that he, Dumbledore, speculates on the effect of. He only gave Harry minimal information in addition to what Harry saw. I think that this is his way of seeing if Harry comes to the same conclusions that he does.

What was the purpose for this particular lesson?

Again, I agree on this one. I think it's also to show how important the line of Slytherin and being a pure-blood was to Voldemort and his family.

We are introduced to several members of Voldemort’s family. What were your impressions of them? What are your feelings on the actions taken by Merope? How does she compare to the other “mothers” we discussed earlier?

This kind of goes along with answers to the previous question, but I think that it is also to, as Tiff said, not elicit sympathy for Voldemort, but to sort of explain him and where he came from. As for Merope, it's really all speculation on her as a mother, since she died before getting the chance to act as one. It's possible that she would have protected her son, but more than likely, she would have gone back to Tom Riddle Sr., and used the baby as a tool to get him back, and then despising Voldemort if Tom didn't take her back. I'm not sure that I agree, though, that she let herself die. We don't actually know (at least at this point--maybe it comes out later) what caused her death. It could have been in childbirth, it could have been illness, or she could have chosen to let herself die after Tom left. It's possible that dying and leaving her son was the last thing she wanted. We don't really know, which is why I think we can't fully say what kind of a mother she would be.

Dumbledore does a lot of “guesswork” in this chapter. Do you think he is necessarily “right” about all of it?

Again, I think this is part of why he wanted Harry to see the memories for himself, rather than simply telling him his "theories".

[yodamarie78]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 8:23am

I'm dragging this thread up from page 3 to report another tardy chapter. I had a homework emergency last night, so take one more day to discuss Chapter 10 or how hot Dan is shirtless and we'll move on the Chapter 11 tomorrow. Sorry!

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 11:19am

Ok I am going to go read Chapter 11 now so that my usual problem doesn't happen. Usually I read it once it is posted and by the time I am done, people have already posted their answers and I don't have much to add.

[Patronus]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 11:28am

Yeah, I think we are all mucho behind. It's understandable, ym.

[pndmnd]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 3:45pm

This is more than fine with me! I haven't had a chance to read Chapter 11 yet, and I actually have some time tonight.

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 8:11pm

Wonderful! I am swamped with homework and today is my brother's birthday, so this will give me time.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 8:14pm

Not a problem, Yoda! I'm done chapter 11 (would you like another apple, teacher?) so this'll give me time to read a bit more of The Historian.

And HOW HOT IS DAN SHIRTLESS??

*Dobby head-smack* Bad Tiffy! Bad Tiffy!

[Atrias]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 8:37pm

Honey, you've got some stiff competition, that Moaning Myrtle is persistant!

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 8:45pm

Honey, you've got some stiff competition...

Why, is Cedric back? Or Draco and his large...wand?


Bad Tiffy! Bad Tiffy!

[Atrias]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 8:51pm

Actually, Tiff, I heard it's the Giant Squid, apparently Harry's looking for something bigger.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 8:59pm

Something with suction capabilities, huh. And long...tentacles.

[Atrias]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 9:04pm

*thinks back to baaaad animes her friends forced her to watch at late night parties*

Yes, the tentacles are essential.

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 9:22pm

Um...hopefully Dan will go for someone his own age.

*raises hand frantically, screams "PICK ME DAN!!!"*

[Atrias]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 9:28pm

Pssh, you're too young for him.

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 9:31pm

Hey!!!

Well better to be too young than too old for him.

[Atrias]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 9:32pm

We're actually the same age...to bad I'm not interested. *lusts after Robert Pattinson*

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 10:37pm

Okay...well, you can have Robert Pattinson, I can have Daniel, and Tiff can have...


um...


Robbie Coltrane?

[yodamarie78]

Posted: 3/15/06 at 11:52pm

Only 16 hours late I give you:

Chapter 11 Hermione's Helping Hand

The trio find that do to the fact that they are busier than ever with school work in their sixth year, they have very little free time. Saturday morning Hermione suggests that they use their free time to visit Hagrid, as he has stopped appearing at meals and is ignoring them in the halls. First, however Harry has to conduct Quiddich trials. He is surprised and annoyed to find that many students from both Gryffindor and other houses turn out to watch. After a long morning spent shouting at angry students, Harry is able to find a new team, which includes both Ron and Ginny. The trio goes to talk to Hagrid, who is angry at first because they didn't continue with Care of Magical Creatures. Soon he tells them that he is upset because Aragog is ill. On the way back to the castle for dinner they run into Professor Slughorn who invites Harry and Hermione to a party in his office, but Harry cannot go because he has detention with Snape.

*Discussion Questions*

What does this chapter say about the way that other students perceive Harry?

What do the Quiddich trials tell you about Harry's character and sense of fairness?

Was it okay for Hermione to confound McLaggen to give Ron a better chance of making the team?

This is another chapter that is largely exposition and character development that don't really further the story much. Do you like these chapters? Why/Why not? What purpose do chapters like this serve in the overarching story?

Many thanks to Smartpenguin78 for his help with the questions and for putting up with me!

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/16/06 at 12:06am

What does this chapter say about the way that other students perceive Harry?

Last year, people believed Harry to be dangerous and crazy, but after it was proven that he was telling the truth, it seems that he has become more of a hero than he ever was. Judging by the amount of students who showed up at the quidditch trials who obviously only came to see Harry (like the Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws, which made me laugh ), Harry has his hero grandeur back, and people want to see what the Daily Prophet calls "The Chosen One".

What do the Quiddich trials tell you about Harry's character and sense of fairness?

I think that Harry is pretty fair; it seemed as though he would have given Maclaggen the position if he had beaten Ron, whether he liked Cormac or not. I was surprised at Hermione, however. Usually she is the real stickler for the rules and fairness (like how it's not fair that Harry is getting better marks than her in potions )

Was it okay for Hermione to confound McLaggen to give Ron a better chance of making the team?

Not really. We all wanted Ron to make it over Cormac, but it was unfair of Hermione to jeopordize his chances, just because she prefers (or loves) Ron. For all we know, Cormac could have been the better player, but he wouldn't get the opportunity thanks to Hermione. I find it interesting that she seems to only apply what is fair to anything that is for her benefit. Like I said above, she doesn't think it's unfair to make Cormac look like a fool and to cheat to ensure that Ron gets a spot on the team, but she thinks it is unfair that Harry should be getting better marks than her on potions because of the Half Blood Prince. This shows me something about Hermione's character.

This is another chapter that is largely exposition and character development that don't really further the story much. Do you like these chapters? Why/Why not? What purpose do chapters like this serve in the overarching story?

Yes, I like these chapters. They give us deeper insight to all of the characters and how they've changed, which is nice.

Updated On: 3/16/06 at 12:06 AM

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 3/16/06 at 12:07am

ok so I was second

What does this chapter say about the way that other students perceive Harry?

Others think of him as a celebrity. All these people who have no interest in Quiddich at all come out for it just so they will get to be near him. They are curious and want to see what he is like up close.

What do the Quiddich trials tell you about Harry's character and sense of fairness?

I think it shows that he is very fair. He does not automatically let his friends on, he goes by who was the ebst, and the best end up including some of his friends.

Was it okay for Hermione to confound McLaggen to give Ron a better chance of making the team?

I still can't decide on this one. I know I was rooting on Ron to make it, but the fact that Hermione cheated makes me wonder. I mean if she hadn't they would have tied so there would have been a redo or something. I would have rather had Ron get it on his own. but I understand why Hermione did it and I really did not want the other guy to make it, especially if he was talking badly about Ginny and Ron.

This is another chapter that is largely exposition and character development that don't really further the story much. Do you like these chapters? Why/Why not? What purpose do chapters like this serve in the overarching story?

I love these chapters because the give great insight into what the characters are like and to me, characters make the story. On what purpose they serve, it depends. I think a lot of it is for us to understand the characters more, find out how their personalities are changing and get little things about them that are not seen in action packed chapters. I am sure there is also some foreahadowing in these chapters also, not as much about what will happen, but more of how characters will react in certain situations
Updated On: 3/16/06 at 12:07 AM

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 3/16/06 at 12:09am

Lol. Sorry Caitiesus, but I was actually first.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/16/06 at 6:38pm

What does this chapter say about the way that other students perceive Harry?

What everyone else said. It seems to be almost a rehash of the first two books, when people were so curious about him, but it also shows a lot of personal growth that he's able to deal with it better than he did before.

What do the Quiddich trials tell you about Harry's character and sense of fairness?

What everyone else said, too. That he's fair and would go with his conscience, even if he would rather have Ron on the team. (Side note: Doesn't Cormac seem too tempermental and mean-spirited to be in Gryffindor? Seems more Slytherin.)

Was it okay for Hermione to confound McLaggen to give Ron a better chance of making the team?

Define..."okay". Was it right? No. But will I forgive her? Yes. (And really, while it wasn't fair based on the audition's parameters, in terms of team spirit and sportsmanship, Ron DID deserve the position more than Cormac probably would.) Plus what I liked about it is it shows just how taken Hermione secretly is with Ron, if she's willing to break the rules for something she knows is important to him. I went, "Aww..." when I saw what she did. It actually made me like her even more!

This is another chapter that is largely exposition and character development that don't really further the story much. Do you like these chapters? Why/Why not? What purpose do chapters like this serve in the overarching story?

I like them because at times, I find the characters' personal progression equally interesting as the main storyline, and I care about them.

[pndmnd]

Posted: 3/16/06 at 8:45pm

What does this chapter say about the way that other students perceive Harry?

I agree with all above. The students are no longer afraid of him, but in awe of him. He's regained his celebrity status, and some of his friends have risen, as well (i.e. Lavender's crush on Ron). Hermione pretty much sums it up--they all know he was right, he's fought Voldemort twice, and he's grown. The Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws showing up really made me laugh!

What do the Quiddich trials tell you about Harry's character and sense of fairness?

This question kind of depends on your definition of fair. Harry was very fair to his friends. Luckily for him, he didn't really have to make a decision about Ron or McLaggen. Had they tied, he would have had to have a playoff or just make a decision. While Ron wasn't the most consistent player last year, he definitely improved, and helped the team win the last game. If Ron hadn't done well, I'm not convinced that Harry wouldn't have still picked him. To me, though, this speaks well of his character--he values friendship over Quiddich.

Was it okay for Hermione to confound McLaggen to give Ron a better chance of making the team?

Well, technically speaking, no, it wasn't OK, but to me it was. It wasn't like she did anything to help Ron do better, she just did something to keep McLaggen from doing quite as well. Besides, he really was a jerk and, like I said before, Ron really ended up doing well when he needed to last year. Plus, I agree with Tiff--it shows how Hermione really feels about Ron. She wouldn't cheat for just anyone!

This is another chapter that is largely exposition and character development that don't really further the story much. Do you like these chapters? Why/Why not? What purpose do chapters like this serve in the overarching story?

I actually feel like the whole book is exposition and rising action for the next book, at least at this point. Even though they don't really add to the plot (and will most likely be cut from the film when the time comes), they speak loads about the characters (in an actions speak louder than words kind of way).

[Dramatic_Irony]

Posted: 3/16/06 at 9:04pm

Hello, Harry Potter fans and analyzers!

I don't really have much to add to what everyone else has stated about this chapter, but I'll try to give my own spin on it:

What does this chapter say about the way that other students percieve Harry?

I think that it's mainly recalling back to the first book, when so many people reacted to his presence in the same way. However what was interesting was the addition of "fangirls". One of the many slightly more mature themes in the book, the addition of "boy-meets-girl" and the like is commented on nicely here with Romilda Vane et. all. As Tiff has said, it's another comment of Harry's maturity on how he deals with it.

What do Quidditch trials tell you about Harry's character and his sense of fairness?

I really don't have anything to expand on this question. But I will bring up something. It does show exactly how seriously Harry has come to take Quidditch, and that it no longer is something that just feels natural as it was in 1st year. As well as his dismissal of people who hadn't come wanting to play Quidditch, he judges extremely fairly. I'm wondering if he should bring his mind-set here for the try-outs more into "the real world" a bit more.

Was it okay for Hermione to confound McLaggen to give Ron a better chance of making the team?

Honestly? No. I don't think it was completely morally right. However, it makes me love Hermione all the more. She has broken the rules before (moral and school) but it was all for, arguably, life or death issues. This was more selfish, and for personal reasons. Again, it goes with the theme of the 6th book so far- showing characters in more shades of grey.

Updated On: 3/16/06 at 09:04 PM