Helen Thomas retires- Page 2

[After Eight]

Posted: 6/7/10 at 7:24pm

Good news.

[JohnBoy]

Posted: 6/7/10 at 9:01pm

We are one and the same. Both are old and neither is Republican, nor Democrat.

[Luscious]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 7:28am

Happy retirement, Helen! Always liked her. Didn't always agree with her 100%, but at least she had the balls to speak her mind. Why is it that you can't say anything negative about Israel without being accused of being a Jew hater? Sorry... but the whole flotilla debacle was just wrong on Israel's part. And while I don't believe that Jews should "get out" of Israel and "go home", I definitely believe in a two state solution; something that Israel doesn't appear genuinely interested in or supportive of making happen.

Updated On: 6/8/10 at 07:28 AM

[After Eight]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 8:24am

"And while I don't believe that Jews should "get out" of Israel and "go home,""

Well, Thomas DID say that. Maybe that's why her comments went beyond just criticism of Israel, and let her true colors be shown in all their ugliness.



"I definitely believe in a two state solution; something that Israel doesn't appear genuinely interested in or supportive of making happen."

Uh, it takes two parties to be genuinely interested in and supportive of making it happen.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 8:38am

"Why is it that you can't say anything negative about Israel without being accused of being a Jew hater?"

Ummm....because there's a difference between saying something negative about Israel and saying that Jews should go back to Germany and Poland where 6 MILLION JEWS WERE EXTERMINATED.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 9:15am

it's just patently unfair that her long and distinguished career will be eclipsed by her canonization as the patron saint of the holocaust by hamas, hezbollah, that little freak imadinnerjacket and the american nazi party. all because she let slip her true feelings about those damn dirty vermin that have the audacity to keep whupping the asses of their neighbors who wish to see them wiped from the face of the earth.

[Luscious]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 11:38am

I don't believe that anyone's career or political ideology should be defined up by a 30-second sound bite.

Not all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitism -- although some, undeniably, is. IMO, Helen Thomas' comments are not.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 11:40am

I definitely believe in a two state solution; something that Israel doesn't appear genuinely interested in or supportive of making happen.

Luscious, do you even realize that your statement above is equally true and equally false about Israel's neighbors:

I definitely believe in a two state solution; something that the Palestinians and all the Arab states don't appear genuinely interested in or supportive of making happen.

The reason it seems to you like you can't say anything negative about Israel without being accused of being a Jew hater is that very often the negative things said about Israel could just as easily be said about Israel's neighbors but are not. Case in point, your statement above.

[tazber]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 11:51am

Israel has said many times (and most recently last week) the Gaza blockade can be lifted at any time. All that is required is for Hamas to acknowledge Israel's right to exist.

[Luscious]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 12:15pm

PalJoey... point taken.

However, I wouldn't want past critical comments of mine about the U.S. and some of its policies to be perceived as my being anti-American. Same goes for Helen's comments and views in regard to Israel and its policies. For decades, she was a highly respected and unbiased journalist. But now she’s a columnist, and gets paid for giving her opinion. I agree that she could have stated her opinion more clearly and sensitively, but, as previously stated, I don't believe that her career or her character should be defined by one 30-second sound bite. And I certainly don't believe that it makes her an anti-Semite.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 12:25pm

unbiased? really? lmao.

and c'mon, taz, they do that and their funding dries up and they will be turned on by them animals and devoured for their weakness. then a new entity will pop up and derive its power from its promise to drive the jooos into the sea.

[Luscious]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 12:28pm

"I can understand that there are certain things in America's interest that may explain our friendship and common goals. But many times, I have been mad as hell at Israel, and America rarely says a damn thing. It is easy to criticize adversaries. But when you don't correct your friends, you stand for nothing."
In Defense of Helen Thomas

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 12:29pm

"[T]he negative things said about Israel could just as easily be said about Israel's neighbors but are not."

PJ, you sound like Alice Ripley "not saying fag."

That makes you an Arab-hater, right?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 12:39pm

Personally, I know many people in Israel (not any currently in power) who DO want a 2-state solution.

I know no one in the entire Arab world who has ever said they do.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 12:40pm

How many Arabs do you know?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 2:18pm

Socially? Or through writings?

A Palestinian Fire Island housemate was the first one I met, in 1994. He had grown up in Kuwait. His family had sold some property to Jewish settlers prior to 1948 and had some taken by the Israelis after the 1967 war, after which they moved to Kuwait. He hated living in Kuwait and hated that his family left.

We had several intense discussions--he is a very brilliant lawyers--and finally decided to agree to disagree. The one thing we agreed on is that the ONLY way there could be peace was through prosperity, that as long as there was poverty in Arab countries, there would be hatred. But he did not believe that there should be a Jewish state on any portion of the land.

He was gay at the time but since then I heard that he moved back to his family in Kuwait, married and has children now. I had a kind of a crush on him and I often wonder how he is.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 2:26pm

I'm not sure you should extrapolate from that one encounter that no one in the entire Arab world wants a two-state solution.

For example, according to a 2002 poll conducted by PIPA, 72 percent of both Palestinians and Israelis supported at that time a peace settlement based on the 1967 borders.

Of course, that's just one poll, but the whole "lots of Israelis want it and not a single Arab does" stance seems unhelpful to the discussion.



Updated On: 6/8/10 at 02:26 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 2:35pm

Wow. I had no idea that was the case.

But what exactly does "72 percent of "both Palestinians and Israelis" mean

Did they measure the subsets? What percentage of Palestinians and what percentage of Israelis support two side-by-side states?

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 2:42pm

It means that some 600 Palestinians and 500 Israelis were polled and, oddly, 72 percent of each side arrived at that conclusion. (I know; me too . . .)

It did go on to say that each side thought the other unlikely to adhere to any such resolution. But it gives the lie to the notion of no Arabs wanting a two-state solution.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 2:55pm

Reg, that statistic is exactly why Bush made a huge blunder in pushing for elections prematurely in Palestinian areas.

I disagree generally with PJ's statements about all Arabs not wanting a 2-state solution, but I do agree, generally, that most Arab governments prefer to use Israel as the scapegoat for problems.

The dirty little secret is that Israel's Arab neighbors rejected a two-state solution back in 1948 - and that many of them would rather use the Palestinians for political gain rather than see the problem resolved.

Suddenly, if a two-state solution occurs and is agreed-to, then there will be less to distract their own population with, and decades of demeaning and disgusting stereotypes about Jews and Israelis will have to be reconsidered. That is not going to happen. Israel and Jews are the best boogyman many Arab states have to distract their own population from the epic failure of Arab governments to actually provide for their own people. I think Jordan is one big exception to this generalization.

I do not agree with what Israel did, and generally have issues with the blockade, and do not support the policies of the current Israeli government. That said, it takes two to tango, and the blockade is there because Hamas has promised to try and destroy Israel. While I do not agree with the disproportionate use of force when Israel responds, that response is basically begged for when Hamas lobs missiles into Israel. One main reason for the blockade is that some of the purported humanitarian shipments have been anything but. There has to be a solution, but at this point, neither side trusts the other enough to pursue one.

I don't know what the Answer is. The current course is untenable, and many Israelis I have spoken with would be happy for a two-state solution so long as one of the state's goal was not to destroy Israel. Most just want to live in peace. With the current government in place in the Palestinian territories, that is not possible. Unfortunately, Israel's (and the US thanks to Bush's miscalculation) policies just further strengthen Hamas. And, with the increasing radicalization of the Israeli military (similar in some ways to the far right Christian influence in the US military), I fear that things will get worse before they get better.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 3:00pm

All very good points, YWIW.

Basically all I was trying to get at is that the problem is far from one-sided.

EDIT: Or that the desire for peace is one-sided either. Updated On: 6/8/10 at 03:00 PM

[tazber]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 3:23pm

YWIW, that was superbly stated.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 3:35pm

Good post YWIW. I have friends who are on each end of the debate and I have come to the same conclusion, I just do not know.

What Helen Thomas said was essentially like that scene in Do The Right Thing where every character shows their racism with Jon Turturro saying 'Go eff back to Africa' to the black community in the film. It was offensive and beyond the pale. People from the left complaining how this is forcing her into retirement and that X on the right gets away with it, is besides the point, there needs to be accountability in saying something that is so offensive and really had nothing to do with what happen with the flotillas. This is not the first time a legacy was quashed in one swoop (Jimmy the greek, Al Campanis, to name a couple).

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 3:42pm

Pat Buchanan has been saying things like this for years--first on CNN and then on MSNBC. He should have been dumped years ago.
Time for Pat Buchanan to retire, too

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 6/8/10 at 3:49pm

The thing that I'm always curious about - and can't seem to get much of an answer on without finding conflicting information depending on the politics of the writer - is actually how Israel came to be. Not in the in mandated by the Old Testament kind of way, but what exactly happened over there in the early parts of the 20th century.

When it's said that the Arabs rejected a two-state solution, was it because they were essentially invaded by interlopers? Was Palestine a wasteland as I've heard from some reports?

Let me make this clear - I'm not anti-Israel and I'm not denying there are a lot of messed in the head Palestinian. I'm just never quite sure how this got as far as it did. I mean, that Arab/Jewish tensions go back thousands of years, but I just wonder if - when Israel was just a a gleam in the eye of.. The British? The UN? Tevye and Golde? ..., what did they expect was going to be the reaction of the Arabs living in Palestine?