Mackenzie Phillips: I slept with my own father....- Page 3

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:57am

Based on what I've seen and heard about their relationship, I think it speaks more on the amount of control her father had over her and his lack of boundaries and discipline from the very beginning. While she was indeed an adult for basically the entire incestuous period, she was indoctrinated with his lack of morality during the most impressionable years of her life. I'm very curious to read the book and it sounds like she was manipulated and brainwashed for so long that she simply didn't know how to function in the outside world. I may be totally off, but I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt before I judge her. In the case of parental incest and sexual abuse of a child or adolescent, the burden of guilt begins with the adult parent and it is emotionally scarring for life.

Updated On: 9/23/09 at 11:57 AM

[Sandy in Sable]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 12:18pm

Oh dear God in heaven. Once I got beyond my initial reaction of, "Damn spoiler, I wanted to see this come out of her own mouth on what looks like a fascinating interview this afternoon", it made me think, "Are there things in life that I just would not EVER speak publicly about?" Thankfully nothing this traumatic has ever happened to me, but I'm curious to see in the Oprah interview just what her motivations are, because for anyone who's been around for a while, MacKenzie has been on TV trying to heal for over the last twenty years. I just hope and pray that this book and these revelations help rather than further hinder her. As mentioned, she has other siblings, I'd hate for this to damage any of her relationships.

Does anyone know if John Phillips has a younger daughter that is rarely mentioned, maybe a stepdaughter? Around 2000, he chaperoned a young lady who was auditioning for the acting program at my college. I'm positive she wasn't Bijou, maybe a niece...

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 2:36pm

The Augusten Burroughs quote from the back of the jacket anticipates the "inevitable backlash":

===

"I felt many things while reading this book -- which I did in one overnight sitting -- but when I reached the last page I felt only one: a tremendous respect for its author and a deep appreciation of just exactly how courageous she is to publish this book.

"This is no celebrity addiction memoir. And it is no 'former child star falls from grace' saga, either. It is the heart-wrenching and perilous story that thousands and thousands of perfectly ordinary women and men lived themselves, silently, numbly, and with obedience and love. By making her search for redemption public -- despite the inevitable backlash -- Mackenzie Phillips may very well help others find it for themselves.

"Rich with compassion, forgiveness, and wisdom, this is a brave memoir executed with an unwavering loyalty and commitment to truth." -- Augusten Burroughs

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 3:12pm

I just hope the book and the accompanying journey is whatever she needs it to be for her. She is not known for doing well under scrutiny and judgement. I hope she does discuss her motivations for going public.

But PJ, I have to disagree with you a little. If she only told close family, friends and possibly a therapist, the chances of it leaking to a rag would be slim. I mean she told Chynna in 1997 and it never leaked. But I understand your point.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 3:14pm

HuffPost on the Oprah:

===


Mackenzie Phillips To Oprah: Decade Of Sex With Dad Ended With Abortion

CHICAGO ? Former child star Mackenzie Phillips said Wednesday her father, John Phillips, who was a leader of the 1960s pop group the Mamas and the Papas, raped her when she was a teenager and that her sexual relationship with him later became what she termed "consensual."

Mackenzie Phillips writes in her new book, "High on Arrival," that she had sex with her father on the night before she was to get married in 1979 at age 19, according to People magazine.

Phillips wrote in her book: "I woke up that night from a blackout to find myself having sex with my own father."

She told "The Oprah Winfrey Show" in an interview that aired Wednesday that her siblings "definitely have a problem with this." Winfrey also read a statement from Genevieve Waite, John Phillips' wife at the time of the alleged abuse and Mackenzie's stepmother that said he was "incapable, no matter how drunk or drugged he was, of having such a relationship with his own child."

Phillips, who starred on TV's "One Day at a Time," said the sexual relationship with her father lasted a decade and ended when she became pregnant and didn't know who had fathered the child. She had an abortion, which her father paid for, and "and I never let him touch me again."

Phillips told Winfrey that she first tried cocaine when she was 11 years old. Her father did drugs with her, taught her to roll joints and injected her with cocaine. Phillips said she's been clean for a year after pleading guilty to possessing cocaine and entering a drug treatment program.

Phillips said the sexual relationship, although she believes it became consensual, was "an abuse of power" and "a betrayal" on her father's part. She said she forgave John Phillips on his deathbed.

"I can't be the only one this has happened to," Phillips said. "Someone needs to put a face on consensual incest."
Mackenzie Phillips To Oprah: Decade Of Sex With Dad Ended With Abortion

[Estrella]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 3:25pm

Well the book will certainly sell, based on the interest it has generated here alone.

Talk to hookers on any street corner on the continent and you'll find similar stories. Mackenzie grew up in a drug milieu and her father likely groomed her for sex for years prior to. This generates interest because the father was a famous entertainer, but the story is not uncommon. If the book has any depth or insight, its publication may be a good thing, but if it's just a sensational money-hit, I don't see any point.

I never took to the M's & P's, but I always liked Jose Feliciano's rendition of California Dreamin'".

Updated On: 9/23/09 at 03:25 PM

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 4:12pm

Michelle Phillips isn't having any of this...
MAMA MICHELLE SPEAKS OUT ON INCEST CLAIMS

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 4:41pm

Did anyone watch?

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 6:04pm

I watched. It continues tomorrow and Chynna Phillips is going to be interviewed. I came away feeling extremely sorry for her. She's led an extremely troubled life. I just think it's a shame her father subjected her to so much and not once was her mother even addressed. Where was her mother in all this?

[StockardFan]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 6:12pm

Well it seems that her mother and father were divorced way before any of this happened. Did he and Michelle have custody of her?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 8:52pm

John and Michelle divorced before this happened.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 10:53pm

My goodness, Michelle Phillips uses some mighty big words in that Marquise link up there. She wasn't just the pretty one, she was the brainy one too!

I just think all this cluck-clucking about Mackenzie having the temerity to write a book is kind of beside the point. Why does anybody write a book? Because she has a story to tell. Is the problem that the book comes with a price tag? It's really weird what we think is something it's "acceptable" to make money doing and what's not sometimes.

It does seem that a lot of people looking at this story are doing so without much first hand knowledge of the weirdness of the sexual revolution or the accompanying drug explosion. I mean, I think both things are and were great, but there certainly were people who couldn't handle either. Boundaries were broken, the old rules were thrown out, but for far too many people many lines were tragically crossed.

It's probably next-to-impossible for people to just hear this story. But I think the strong anti-Mackenzie response (because, let's be honest, it's not about SALES, it's HER who has so many people pissed off), is kind of what happens to women who are survivors of trauma who explicitly name their experiences. People turn on them because they feel implicated in some way by the story. And there are lots of possible ways.

[alightinthedark23]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:13pm

Not gonna lie, this freaked me out. It's a little disturbing.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:15pm

Both denial and anger are common reactions in families after sexual abuse disclosures. Michelle probably has a lot of conflicted feelings, some of which Namo discussed. The other issue is that families with an identified addict like Mackenzie typically are burned out from years of back and forth, lies, stealing, excuses, etc. So some family members may no longer have any room for empathy or support of Mackenzie, both due to her disclosure, but due to previous emotional wounds. They may not have room for this.

The other backlash is that unlike many other celebrity memoirs, where the person writing often actually had a flourishing, successful entertainment career, Mackenzie never really contributed much due to her addictions, so she is selling a book based on her family name, some very fleeting fame of her own, and to many it will feel like a "Mommie Dearest". People will have reactions to that.

Updated On: 9/23/09 at 11:15 PM

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:18pm

Am I the only one who is disturbed by the way a lot of news sources are phrasing this story? I wouldn't say that they had a "sexual relationship". I'd say it's more along the lines of being raped.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:23pm

See, I think "givesmevoice" is clearly showing us an example of how people are unable to hear this story. Mackenzie herself is saying that in their drugged up effed up stupor she woke up and found her father molesting her but that for ten years after that she then engaged in a consensual sexual relationship with him. Because this is SO taboo, people will refuse to let her name her own experience.

People tell women like Mackenzie Phillips what their experiences mean, what the right interpretations of them are, and exactly what language they should use if they expect to get any support.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:24pm

I don't like that either gives me voice, however Mackenzie has been framing it as a "consensual incestuous relationship." I think she is trying to delineate her situation from others, but I think it only confuses the matter for herself and other survivors. She was manipulated, coerced, drugged, seduced, raped by her father according to her reports. Her state of mind was probably so confused and drug-addled that I don't see anything the slightest bit consensual about it. She was sexually abused and confused about boundaries and limits. Informed consent requires more clarity and peace of mind than Mackenzie had. I truly hope she gets a lot of support and does not relapse or get wounded further.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:24pm

The other issue is that families with an identified addict like Mackenzie typically are burned out from years of back and forth, lies, stealing, excuses, etc.

John was an addict too. Maybe Michelle and the other wife are also burned out from years of back and forth with John, John's lies, John's excuses, John's etc.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:25pm

Good point, PJ.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:33pm

Namo, I think your argument is valid. And you're certainly right that people, including myself, are going to try and twist and interpret her story in a way that she might not have wanted.

However, I still think the consent is dubious. This most likely did not start when she was 19. Like Bettyboy said, she was probably manipulated and coerced (and not necessarily sexually) by her father for many years. If that's the case, he was the one with all the power. A parent, grandparent, aunt, uncle, older relative, etc should not use their power in a sexual way. She was also an addict, and one could argue that she wasn't in her right frame of mind to be giving consent.


I also like that you used quotation marks for my name. "This person, shall we say...'givesmevoice'?"

Updated On: 9/23/09 at 11:33 PM

[Eris0303]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:35pm

But PJ, I have to disagree with you a little. If she only told close family, friends and possibly a therapist, the chances of it leaking to a rag would be slim. I mean she told Chynna in 1997 and it never leaked. But I understand your point.

If it happened for ten years then someone outside the family may have witnesses or suspected something. From what I can gather they traveled with other addicts. Who knows who actually knew and whether they threatened to come forward or not. Hard to say.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:39pm

Yes yes yes, I know. All of the boilerplate language is, of course, true. Power, abuse. Manipulation, coercion. (Although, good luck finding a human who has never been manipulated and coerced by a parent).

The problem is that when a de facto list of rules of ways in which these things can be discussed and processed boils up it makes something as complicated and effed up as the situation Mackenzie is describing far more simple than it possibly could be, and effectively serves to silence her in discussing something so intricate and multifaceted.

I should disclose that I worked with a woman who had been an incest survivor and I watched first-hand how she was supported UNTIL she said something that wasn't by the book. She spoke out in a group and said that the whole thing was confusing for her because she felt sexual pleasure during the incestuous sex with her father. She wanted to explore that confusion and I was there when some other women told her she couldn't even say that out loud because it "betrayed" other survivors.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:51pm

I should disclose that I worked with a woman who had been an incest survivor and I watched first-hand how she was supported UNTIL she said something that wasn't by the book. She spoke out in a group and said that the whole thing was confusing for her because she felt sexual pleasure during the incestuous sex with her father. She wanted to explore that confusion and I was there when some other women told her she couldn't even say that out loud because it "betrayed" other survivors.

That's such a shame that her support group treated her like that. I believe it's a pretty touchy subject among rape victims, too. Can you still consider it rape even if you have an orgasm? [I'm trying to phrase my comment so I don't sound patronizing.] I think it's brave to admit that you're confused because of that, and it's probably a pretty important aspect of recovery to explore those feelings.

I'll never fully understand the situation Mackenzie is going through, but I stand by my opinion about the way the media has been spinning the story. It's shaky ground, for sure, but I just feel like it's a poor representation of what happened.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:57pm

Yes. An orgasm is an involuntary reaction.

PJ, you need to start Tivoing Oprah! This is two big celeb interviews you've missed!

It does seem that a lot of people looking at this story are doing so without much first hand knowledge of the weirdness of the sexual revolution or the accompanying drug explosion. I mean, I think both things are and were great, but there certainly were people who couldn't handle either. Boundaries were broken, the old rules were thrown out, but for far too many people many lines were tragically crossed.

What you said.

John Phillips was a brilliantly talented, deeply messed up human being. I always thought the talent should be first, but now I'm not so sure.

Michelle Phillips, who I have always and will always adore, comes off rather vitriolic in that statement. Reactionary. As people tend to be when confronted with truths they don't want to hear.

It's all just sad and gross and I just feel so bad because all I keep thinking about is how I don't ever want to listen to the Mamas and the Papas again.
Updated On: 9/23/09 at 11:57 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/23/09 at 11:58pm

Of course you can. I mean, until people can accept the fact that life is way more complicated than most of us give it credit for, we'll never get anywhere ever.

Both things can be true: it can be rape, and it could (possibly maybe) give you an orgasm.