Man Beaten in Moscow Bar for 'Looking Gay'- Page 4

[Jungle Red]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:39pm

The thing, though, if we're going to bring up Nazi Germany, Hitler was able to get everyone on his side by blaming the Jews. There's a big difference in "I hate fags because they're scum" than "Jews are the reason you're broke, tired, and hungry."

I could totally be wrong, but that's how I understand Hitler was able to do what he did.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:41pm

I just like to think (and liking to think is useless in situations like this, I admit) that a lot of the people polled don't realize exactly what's going on.

Me too. I tell myself this is true of the people who repeat Fox talking points.

[suestorm]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:42pm

JUNGLE thats part true. its also true cuz after WW1 the Allies DEVASTATED, PILLAGED and HUMMILIATED Germany, so he was able to blame jews, jew bankers and the ALLIES. He was the only one who can bring pride and power back to Germany

YES NAMO, FOX news is the boogey man... BOOO!!!!!

Updated On: 8/6/13 at 04:42 PM

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:43pm

Seeing Narcissists Everywhere

Updated On: 8/6/13 at 04:43 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:43pm

Hitler did blame the Jews for many of the German's misfortunes. But he also whipped up a nationalistic frenzy- he and Goebbels and the rest were able to create a national pride which went hand in hand with creating an Other (Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, Jehovah's witnesses, communists, the disabled, and more).

It wasnt just scapegoating. It was cultural strengthening through purging the Other.

Which is what Putin appears to be doing- strengthening Russian culture by removing the weak element.

Updated On: 8/6/13 at 04:43 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:44pm

"But those in St. Petersburg? Moscow? They are two of the most known cities in the world, immortalized in literature and art, centers of Russian culture and sites of world heritage."

Yeah. Just like Berlin in the 1920s. I think sometimes that allows people to turn a blind eye even easier--or not think it's touched them. (I wonder how many wealthy, or famous gay Russians have been touched by these laws--I would guess, virtually none.) The country is not financially stable, and for much of the rich (just like in other countries like the USA or Canada) it's easy to say one thing to save their own. I guess I just assume (and this is completely my assumption) that those polls were not done anonymously.

[Kad]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:46pm

I would gather there are virtually no wealthy, famous gay Russians left IN Russia. Many of the most wealthy were branded ogliarchs and fled.

Updated On: 8/6/13 at 04:46 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:46pm

"But he also whipped up a nationalistic frenzy- he and Goebbels and the rest were able to create a national pride which went hand in hand with creating an Other (Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, Jehovah's witnesses, communists, the disabled, and more).

It wasnt just scapegoating. It was cultural strengthening through purging the Other."

Absolutely! But that's basically what Putin is doing as well--down to the way he uses his image as some sort of super-man. It's all about a nationalistic pride--one with orthodox Christian beliefs--to make a society feel better about themselves.

[suestorm]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:50pm

and its just not the gays...

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:55pm

Kad have you looked at the ballet companies? The drama at the Bolshoi aside, there are a number of leading figures there, and in St Petersburg who basically have the last word there and are definitely gay.

My point is--and I think we pretty much agree--Putin *is* doing what Hitler did. He's placing the focus on "the others" as well as the balme, and that distracts the masses.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:55pm

The US is so vulnerable to that kind of manipulation. Just look at the circus clowns in the last Republican presidential primary season.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 4:58pm

Exactly--look at the people who could and would benefit most from healthcare, to use one example, and who vote against it.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:01pm

"Just look at the circus clowns in the last Republican presidential primary season."

True...but, thankfully, common sense prevailed. So, at least there's that!

And we can in no way compare this situation to Weimar, because in the 20's and 30's, you were not literally connected globally through technology. We are today. So there is no excuse. None.

[Kad]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:02pm

I don't know much about the leaders of the Russian Ballet. Have any of them issued any sort of statement, which would be potentially criminal under the new laws?

[suestorm]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:05pm

I dont know how much you all know about PUSSYRIOT. but their whole platform is against Putin illegal obtaining office and how it doesnt matter if people are black, gay, etc etc. if you know against PR, they arent just the 3 who were arrested. ITS A MOVEMENT of YOUNG PEOPLE against PREJUDICE and the OLD REGIME

YOUNG PEOPLE, MY AGE ARE TRYING TO CHANGE THINGS THAT OLD PEOPLE HAVE F;D UP!!

Updated On: 8/6/13 at 05:05 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:10pm

ABSOLUTELY TRUE on all accounts, Robbie.

[GlindatheGood22]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:11pm

This makes me so, so, so sad. I am part Russian, have spent much of my life studying the country's history, and have dreamt of visiting for years. Of course I would not dream of setting foot on Russian soil while this law is in place.

I've been working on a project for the last year or so that has put me in contact with a multitude of Russian citizens and scholars, both online and in person. For the most part we discuss history - the Romanovs and all the details related to them, which is what I need to know for my work. But it's impossible not to get into discussions about Putin, etc. The thing that disturbs me most about their reaction to this controversy (which I'm sure is not news to them at all) is that it has been nonexistent. They literally just don't talk about it, at least not in front of me, and I can't understand that. I'm sure part of that comes from my being American and therefore an outsider. I can't respect what Putin is doing, but I also can't just assume that they are among the 32% of Russians who think gays should be publicly executed. It's an awful situation, but I almost feel like I have no right to ask them about it, since they've made it clear it is not something they feel like talking about.

Updated On: 8/6/13 at 05:11 PM

[Wynbish]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:14pm

Robbie, I agree. And it's kind of a double-edged sword having the technology from the outsiders' perspectives. We can read and see pictures of it and be aware it's happening, but we also can't help but feel that we are virtually powerless to help stop it. It's a hard feeling.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:17pm

"I don't know much about the leaders of the Russian Ballet. Have any of them issued any sort of statement, which would be potentially criminal under the new laws?"


Not at all--this has been discussed a lot on Ballet Alert! (a great forum for anyone likes ballet.) I really wish they would--but I imagine it becomes less likely every day.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:18pm

"What is to be done?"

Updated On: 8/6/13 at 05:18 PM

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:20pm

"We can read and see pictures of it and be aware it's happening, but we also can't help but feel that we are virtually powerless to help stop it."

I have to believe that, at the very least, the light that is shining on this kind of thing will do something in some way. I don't know how. I don't know what. But if I give up believing that, I will lose my F*CKing mind.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:20pm

"And we can in no way compare this situation to Weimar, because in the 20's and 30's, you were not literally connected globally through technology. We are today. So there is no excuse. None. "

I completely agree--I meant the situation within the country politically. I think this is a very important international situation to stand by. As I said above, a friend compared it to the Thatcher gov in the UK of he '80s--it frankly doesn't matter what came before or how people reacted to it back then. There is zero excuse.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:22pm

I have a friend who is a TV star in Moscow. I shan't mention a name or gender. I worry that even interacting with me online will leave sparkling glitter trails that get her or him in trouble by association.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:26pm

^ I know it wasn't supposed to, but that just made me howl cause I forgot all about that.

I'm becoming more convinced that the Olympics shouldn't be boycotted. Every athlete from every 'liberal' country should show up with a Goddamn SILENCE = DEATH t-shirt during the parade of nations.

Updated On: 8/6/13 at 05:26 PM

[Jungle Red]

Posted: 8/6/13 at 5:28pm

It won't happen, but I would love for everyone to wear t-shirts that say I'M GAY on them. And I mean everyone. Athletes, coaches, vendors. Could you imagine everyone being arrested?