Religion and me.....- Page 3

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 3:49pm

Ok, here we go with the corny analogies.

God is like a parent and we are like Children. Yes, he watches over us like a parent, but like parents they can not always stop bad things from happening to us.

And I am so sorry for your pains.

[DramaDork925]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 3:58pm

I know, I try not to blame God but when people keep telling you "Just put your faith in God" or "Just pray" you start to wonder if maybe God's responsible for the badness happening too. It's immature and childish but I can't help feeling that way.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 3:59pm

Hey, don't apologize. Right now, this is how you feel because you have been hurt very badly. Hopefully, all this pain and hatred will go away.

[shameless]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 4:00pm

It's not immature. People 4 and 5 times your age have turned away from religion or their faith after a personal tragedy or hardship.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 4:02pm

Oh, I forgot to add that I was raised Jewish, Bat Mitzvah, confirmation, worked at a Jewish summer camp (very reform). . .

I consider myself far more culturally Jewish than anything else.

And Elphaba, thanks again for bringing this topic up, and for everyone treating it so respectfully.

[KelRel]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 4:03pm

Faith is something that you work at and sometimes you loose it and then all of a sudden you find it again. I don't want to come on here with a bunch of corny sayings and such, but there is one that I have always found to be true. When you feel like you are detached from God remember that it is you who let go of Him, not the other way around. God will be there for you when you are ready. I don't know if it helps but I will be praying for you and your family.

[DramaDork925]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 4:06pm

Thanks, Kel

[peggyandvelma]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 4:50pm

I'm thankful that you guys, Elphaba as well, are all treating this discussion in a nice manner. For once, I can engage in an open-minded talk about how I feel and what I do and not get scoffed at. So, thanks :)

That said, I would like to say that I am 100% Christian. I am very proud to say that I believe in God and that I am saved and am going to Heaven. I don't hate people who believe otherwise. After all, Jesus told us to love our neighbors as ourselves--so why not?? :)
I have seen crazy stuff go down in Baptist churches. People can be mean, rude, and (if you will) "un-Christian like". However, when things like that happen I have to take a step back and go: "You know, I know someone so much better than that. And his name is Jesus. He's the one I need to focus my attention on." That's how I feel. I may come back and add stuff later. That's really all I've got right now...

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 4:51pm

Thanks for sharing, peggy.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 6:48pm

peggy, anyone scoffs at you in this thread, you just let me at them! I'll scream and claw their face!

[Sally Bowles]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 7:01pm

I am a Christian, and I'm so glad you posted this because the most important thing is to be informed. Questioning faith is the only way we can grow and learn.

To start with your comments, seeing religion as a crutch is a comment I've heard before. One idea behind Christianity is that we can't do everything on our own, and we should have someone to lean on. God is that crutch for us, and it isn't a negative thing. How many things have you done that would have been easier if you had had help? When someone offers you help accepting it does not make you weak, it makes you able to accomplish much more than you would be able to alone.

Most religions wouldn't mind if gays were gone? Here's the thing. Yes, in my church we consider engaging in homosexual relations to be a sin. We also consider lying to be a sin, as well as murder, adultery, etc, etc. Does that mean that anyone who commits one of these acts is not welcome? Absolutely not. The churches would be empty of that was the expectation. A sin is a sin is a sin, and we are all guilty. All the church asks is that anyone who commits a sin admits this to God, and asks for forgiveness. We do not wish that the people would be gone. Each and every person is of equal value and importance in God's eye's and He loves every person, no matter the choices they make.

As for getting the same thing from friends and family, of course there is comfort there. Unconditional love is the best thing there is, and God's love is unfailing. Think of it this way: Is there anything worse than the pain of losing a child? It devastates families and throws the whole life cycle off track. Yet God gave us His only son as a sacrifice to atone for our sins. God did not send His son into the world to condemn us, but to give us eternal life. He made the ultimate sacrifice for you, and all He asks is that you acknowledge this and try, in some small way, to repay Him by following the rules set out so that you will have a good life. Like all parents, those rules were set in place for our own good.

Why do I believe what I believe? Partly, it is selfish: I want to go to heaven. Partly ignorance: I don't have anything to lose by beleiving in this, so why not? Also, I haven't come up with any better explanation for how the world was created, and the thought of a higher being is an easy answer. But if you're looking for hard scientific proof that explains everything for you, you won't find it; the purpose of faith is faith. If it could be scientifically proven, everyone would believe it. Those of us who do have faith know that the answers are too complex for us to understand in this life, but God has a plan that will be revealed to us. Faith has given me comfort, peace and hope. What are you hoping for? What are you living for?

As for this whole religious war thing that has plagued the world forever, and continues to get worse, no I don't really have an explanation. But God does, and I can't wait to hear the answer, too.

Please, don't let this board be your only look into religion. Check out some local churches, get involved in a group at the church and have someone who really knows what they're talking about help you with some answers. If that's too much, just pray. Ask God for forgiveness, invite Him into your heart and your life and listen for His response. You'll hear it somewhere.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 7:16pm

I've studied many religions including

Christianity (including mysticism)
Tibetan Buddhism (and others)
Lamaism
Shamanism
Kundalini--Hindu
Kaballah (Jewish mysticism)
Sufism (Islamic mysticism)
The Tao or Dao
American Indian religions
Hawaiian spiritualism
Spritualism
Gnosticism

And many others.

The more you learn, the more there is to know.

Mysticism of all kinds interests me.
Updated On: 3/28/06 at 07:16 PM

[Becky2]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 7:24pm

I came to Christianity through objective truth.

I read all the books, looked at all the information, and it was clear to me that Christianity was accurate. (If you're interested, try starting out by reading Lee Strobel's "A Case for Christ.")

Anyway, I think a lot of people have taken Christianity to extremes. It's not about be self-righteous and going to church everyday. It is about showing mercy, kindness, forgiveness, and having a personal relationship with Christ.

Jesus once asked how one could point out a splinter in his neighbor's eye while he had a log in his. People love to point out others' faults, but they forget that they have their own faults they should be attending to before they try to fix the world. He also stated that the measure of judgement one uses on people will be the same measure God will use on that one on judgement day.

Then there are some Christians who seem to think that some sins are unforgivible. This is far from the truth. Nothing is beyond God's capability. God loves everybody. He may not love the choices they make, but that doesn't lessen His love any.

Then there are those who will go against any new scientific study, thinking it is against the Word of God. Take evolution for example. They say that it contradicts Genesis, but they fail to realize that Genesis does not state HOW God created the universe, just THAT He created the universe. So He could be using evolution, and I think it is probable that He is. The evidence is all around us, and why would God want to deceive us by planting false facts in front of us? God wants us to use the incredible minds that He gave us, not just take anything we hear on blind faith.

So I guess those are my problems with some of the things people think Christianity is about. If people would just relax and use their minds about it, everything would be just fine. But some like to take it overboard and twist it so it fits their own feelings and ideas.

[Broadway_Baby]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 8:41pm

My family has always considered itself Jewish, but I often joked that we were "the worst Jews in the world". We only went to the synagogue on Yom Kippur, barely kept Passover, and nothing was stopping us from enjoying a ham and cheese sandwich. Now, very few children enjoy sitting through a 3 hour service primarily in Hebrew, but by the time I was about 12, I began to contemplate why I disliked religious services so much. I came to the conclusion that I subconsciously didn't believe in what was being taught, and the more I thought about it, I knew I didn't believe in what was being taught. In my opinion, religion should be a personal in the sense that one should choose to express their religious beliefs in whatever manner they deem necessary. I didn't like the idea of simply conforming my beliefs around those of an organization.
Yom Kippur, the holiday of atonement, is a good example. Now, I wholeheartedly believe in the idea of this holiday. That is, reflecting on one's prior actions and vowing to do better in the future. But for me, sitting in a synagogue chanting prayers in a language I didn't even understand wasn't doing it for me. I believe that I don't need to go to a temple to feel spiritual or to participate in such holidays, and that I should be able to partake in such events in a way that is beneficial to me specifically. Which is why I believe that religion should not be assigned to you at birth, but is something that should be discovered and decided through personal experiences and lifestyle choices. Your "religion" should be what makes you happy, and helps you feel accomplished. So whether that is achieved from a mixture of 2 religions, 3 religions, or 92 religions, should be up for you to decide.
Also around the age of 12, I concluded that I don't believe in God. Reason being, I was simply too logical. I couldn't (and still can't) get myself to believe in such an abstract power; to trust and put faith in an idea that to me, was not concrete and exact. Through this, my inability to trust blindly, I discovered my true beliefs regarding spirituality: that we are the masters of our own destiny. Our attitude towards a situation, positive or negative, is the sole factor regarding the outcome. When our brains think, our bodies are subconsciously affected, and the key to success is learning to control ones thoughts in ways that are beneficial for you. If you think positively and believe you can achieve something, your chances of success increase tremendously. And that is what I base my life around. Why go into something with a negative attitude when, if you exert positive energy, you can attract and receive positive energy in return?

To sum this up, I am spiritual, but not necessarily "religious". I believe that I control my fate, my destiny, and every life experience, good or bad. Finally, and most importantly, I believe that religion is what you make of it. There is no concrete right or wrong, only what is right or wrong for you.

Updated On: 3/28/06 at 08:41 PM

[Atrias]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 9:03pm

Okay, I'm gonna take a stab at this...

I'm a practicing Christian, a Catholic, actually. I have been all of my life and I'm not planning on leaving the church any time soon. Why? Well, in my opinion, church beliefs and church politics are very different things. While I heartily disagree with many of the statements that come out of the Catholic hierarchy, I still believe in the religion itself.

For a long time, I struggled with whether or not I should leave the church. Just last week, in fact, one of my closest friends in faith made some remarks about homosexuals that shocked and hurt me. However, I think it necessary that I remain in the church. One doesn't bring about change simply by walking away from a difficult situation. I hope to become a Catholic activist for change as I grow older, in hopes of creating equal opportunities for all who want to worship in the church.

Now, trust me, I'm not delusional. I know that even if I strive my whole life for change, nothing may be accomplished. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to try, because my faith is such an important part of my life that I feel it's a crying shame that some people feel that it's not accessible to them.


Ummm...yeah. That definitely hasn't been stuck in my brain, waiting for the right thread to write it out in.

[theatrebabe]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 9:35pm

What an awesome thread! I was staring to wonder if BWW's could really have an actual disscussion without jumping down each other's throats.

Ok. So, I am Unitarian Universalist and have been since I was born. That doesn't really tell anyone much about my personal beliefs though. I'm still not quite sure what I believe and I'm not hurried to find out.
No matter what people tell me, I have always thought of the idea of the God people always talk about as a sort of superior human who sits up in the clouds and looks down on us. Ever since I was tiny, that was my vision of him. And I didn't like it. I suppose I like the idea of there being someone to pray to when something is going wrong. But I never expect much of anything to happen from those prayers.
I also do NOT like the idea that this God would condemn anyone to eternal damnation. I do not believe in Hell or any form of it. Everyone's going to Heaven in my book.
I believe strongly that love can do just about anything. I guess I could say that my God would be love? I'm just thinking out loud here.

Thanks for letting me ramble.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 9:48pm

To sum this up, I am spiritual, but not necessarily "religious". I believe that I control my fate, my destiny, and every life experience, good or bad. Finally, and most importantly, I believe that religion is what you make of it. There is no concrete right or wrong, only what is right or wrong for you.


beautifully said, broadway

[Elphaba]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 9:51pm

I am amazed by all the posts here, and especially thrilled that we can discuss this without major issues coming out. I may not agree with much that is said here, but......I also can't knock something that works for someone else.
This is really a great thread, and not because I started it.....

[MarkCohen]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 9:57pm

I would say I am a Christian, but I hate the stigmas that have come to be attached to that statement.

I believe this world could not have been created without God. I believe that he gives us free will and set the world in motion in an imperfect way.

I believe that Jesus is God's son and died for my sins.

I go to church every week. Not necessarily for myself, but for the fellowship there. I sing in church to which I enjoy. My pastor is very openminded about everything and does not judge or look down upon anyone.

My theology would not be completely accepted by many Christians. I don't believe the bible is 100% God's exact word, and I'm not a huge Paul fan. I believe it is God's interpreted word and we can see many examples today where his word is interpreted in a very ungodly way.

I am still searching for my personal faith, but I know that God exists because of very physical experiences I have had.

I believe in the freedom and rights of everyone, regardless of my religion. Jesus taught me to be loving, not a hateful and judgemental policeman for him on earth.

I still don't know the deal about Heaven and Hell, the bible is very vague about it.

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:18pm

I am a religious modern Orthodox Jew. I beleive in God, keep Kosher, keep the Sabbath, etc. For me I just do it because it feels right to me, and it has gotten me through incredibley hard times in my life. I beleive I am a better person for it, not in the sense of better than anyone else (because I am definitely not), but better than I would be if faith didn't play a big part in my life.

That is not to say religion hasn't posed a few problems in my life. I decided to retire from acting this summer because I just felt it wasn't a feasible career choice, due to the Sabbath. That was tough, but truth be told I am a better set designer than i ever was an actor, so maybe that decision would have been made later on anyways. I also socially often don't relate to other Orthodox Jews very well, because I grew up in a city without any friends that had the same beleifs as me, so I am just not used to it. One thing I am trying to come to terms with at this point in my life is my duality, trying to balance my strong sense of spirituality with my very secular lifestyle (I have barely any religious friends). One thing that helped a lot, and I know it sounds stupid is my eyebrow peircing. I feel like it offsets my Kippah (aka..Yarmulke...aka...Jew Hat as my pals call it). Any assumtions made by one, are often offset by the other and it keeps people guessing. This is good because if there is one thing I HATE it is people assuming things about me before they know me.

When times get really tough I may have my moments of doubt, but I am a big beleiver that a bit of doubt is healthy, though. If anyone were to claim they follow a religion blindly without doubt...I would run the other way. Doubt is important. Questioning is important. It doesn't mean you beleive any less, it just means you are perpetually looking for the answers. Life is a bout searching...not always finding.

Wow...I haven't slept in three days and it shows. Sorry for the random, unstructured ramblings.

Akiva

[court_zwick]

Posted: 3/28/06 at 11:34pm

Wow, waht an amazing thread. I have just say and read every post and I am also blown away at how open minded and respectful everyone has atayed. I'm going to tell you all a little bit about my beliefs and why I believe them. I grew up in a Christian family. I went to church weekly as a child and was on fire for God. I was always waiting for Sunday School and summer camp and all that great stuff. As I got older I slowly started to drift away from the church. Sleeping in became much more of a priority. It was in the summer between grade 9 and 10 that everything changed. My best friend Jordan(who I was madly in love with in the junior high kind of way) moved away, I had started experimenting with pot and alcohol (well I was past the experimently with drinking stage, that was becoming a hobby) and I was just feeling numb on the inside. That summer I had applied to be a CIT at a Christian camp that I had gone to for years and was accepted. I spent two and a hlaf weeks at the camp doing bible studies, singing about Jesus and having an amazing time and then going home on the weekends, going out and getting plastered. It was tearing me up inside. At the end of the summer there was a youth event at the camp. It was pretty much an overnight reunion for all the cmapers who were too old to go to the normal summer programs but still wanted to go back to their dea old childhood camp. So i decided to go. It had been a beautiful day all day and we were having worship outsie that evening. The song sanctuary was playing and it came to the instrumental part. The camp director was praying and instead of half-listening and maybe aksing God for something completely selfish as I normally did, I bowed my head and prayed stright from my heart. I cried out to God, the God I once knew and said: if you are real, you need yo show me. Cause if you are I have a reason and a way to be ahppy again. and i will really give myself up to you. And it started to pour. I cried as i ran to help carry in the sound equiptment. I felt washed away, clean. All summer whenever i took showers I would stand with the water pouring on me and cry. I felt so empty. It made me feel cleansed and nobody could hear me. But now
I know somone could. That someone was God. From then on i've tried to be good. It's not always easy because there is something in this world that is against us and wants to see us fail. But with Jesus we can make it. I read what was said about christianity being a crutch. I've heard that as well and this summer when I went on a mission trip one of the Youth Leaders (he's a 19 year old pastor's kid with a passion so big for Jesus) got up on our stage and said something to the extent of: Christianity is not crutch, it's more like a whole set od prosthetic legs. I really liked that analogy. I belive that we go to Hell when we have not accepted the salvation of Jesus Christ, not because of a damnation from God but because God is so perfect he cannot even have sin near him. I belive he wants us there with him and gives us things in ourlives to show us him and we only have to open our eyes and hearts to them. I believe this because I can see a difference if I don't read my bible daily in my moods, my feelings, even in my health. I've learned that what we give up for Christ we recieve back much more greatly. I think about things. I don't close my mind, but I know to avoid something when I feel so sick on the inside when it is around. My faith is the most important thing to me. It is what keeps me going and it is my only hope. The bible says if you give up your life, you will truly find it. I've seen this happen and I believe because I have had proof in my life, not because it was what my parents taught me, or because it was the easiest thing to believe. I'm only 17, and you may htink i'm naieve or whatever but i really know. I promise.Well I feel like i'm babbling. Enough.
Updated On: 3/28/06 at 11:34 PM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 9:31am

bump

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 10:12am

The problem of evil is a HUGE problem -- with no satisfying answer.

Why does Chris Reeves die, and Osama keeps living? I'm not sure there is a provable answer -- which is why faith comes in. We get to choose what we believe, and I guess I find a lot of hope in the idea that I don't see the big picture, and when I do, it will make sense. But, what's great is that I can lose a parent, be pissed at God to the point where I don't even believe God is in control (perhaps doesn't exist), but that doesn't change whether or not God is in control. God doesn't need us to believe in order to be in control. That's kind of cool to me.

[Bluemoon]

Posted: 3/29/06 at 10:19am

Touchme - that's wonderful. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 4/1/06 at 11:56am

I wanted to bring this thread back to the front.