Scream Queens (No Spoilers)- Page 3

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 12:48pm

I would never, ever claim to understand the issues that the UK has regarding race and immigration.  I just wouldn't feel like I had anything to add to an insider's conversation.  I would never feel comfortable, for example, talking about British colonialism as it relates to India, which is the closest analogy I can come up with, but STILL is probably way off base.  And you certainly aren't going to get me to defend any of the shows you mentioned.  There are ways that racial issues play out here in the States on a daily basis that wouldn't be obvious to people who don't live here.  Hell...it's barely obvious to people who do live here.  We are a peculiar nation in that we are a democracy that was founded on the backs of kidnapped and raped Africans.  When slavery was abolished and the South defeated, we didn't have any kind of major reckoning.  Slavery just became Jim Crow and the Klan which then became housing projects and ghettos.  We are a nation that decided to vilify and murder the indigenous people because of manifest destiny.  We are a nation that put Japanese people in camps.  We are a nation that refuses to fully take responsibility for all of these actions.

 

I really don't mean this to sound condescending.  But you're telling us we're overreacting and its bullSH*T.  And my response is, as people who live in this particular culture and deal with these issues in a concrete way, our ears may be better tuned to hearing the dog whistles this show is throwing off.  

[tazber]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 12:51pm

And as for us foreigners who don't understand the racial issues of past and present in the US, of course we do, we don't live on the moon, American history and culture is embedded in to our society as are many others.

 

Your stubbornness is only outmatched by your arrogance.

 

But I'm glad you like this mess of a show. Enjoy it now because it won't be around for long.

 

[tazber]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 1:16pm

Reviews:

 

TV Guide says:

… This mean-spirited and imbecilic cartoon feels concocted by 14-year-olds sifting through their ugliest tweets. …

 

The Washington Post says:

... almost prohibitively camp in tone, even for a Murphy show, scorching the campus of fictional Wallace University with any number of insults and derisive jokes aimed at every possible demographic, ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability and so on — all in the name of giddy fun and utter nonsense. Curiously, though, the humor here is not all that sharp; in its better scenes, “Scream Queens” verges on social commentary about political correctness and then turns tail once it gets a look at its own reflection in the mirror. Such pretty teeth and no real bite. …

 

Las Vegas Weekly says:

... Ryan Murphy of Glee and American Horror Story fame (along with his co-creators on those shows, Brad Falchuk and Ian Brennan) brings the worst qualities of both shows to the abysmal Scream Queens, an alleged horror-comedy that’s horrifying in all the wrong ways. … Scream Queens is completely clueless about what’s actually scary, and its comedy is ugly and mean-spirited, full of hateful stereotypes and casual misogyny. Murphy is great at attracting a talented cast (which here includes Emma Roberts, Jamie Lee Curtis and Abigail Breslin, among others) and then saddling them with obnoxious characters and ridiculous dialogue. …

 

 

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:03pm

tazber said: "And as for us foreigners who don't understand the racial issues of past and present in the US, of course we do, we don't live on the moon, American history and culture is embedded in to our society as are many others.

 

 

 

Your stubbornness is only outmatched by your arrogance.

 

 

 

But I'm glad you like this mess of a show. Enjoy it now because it won't be around for long.

 

 

So I'm arrogant because I don't agree? Got it. Sorry but all I'm saying is that for a country who's tv shows have boarder lined racist since TV began up until today I'm just confused as to why this one is offending you so much, my opinion, because it's Ryan Murphy. Modern Family ( laugh at the woman with the funny accent), Empire ( pull out every stereotype possible), Big Bang Theory ( nerds talking about sex) and so on and so on. Yes Scream Queens is mean spirited but so was Heathers, Mean Girls, Cruel Intentions and the countless other mean spirited films that are US made that has given birth to Scream Queens.

 

And I ain't claiming to be an expert on racial issues in the states but it's something we are fully aware of, you forget that the US is notorious for not poking it's head outside it's own walls, hell thats evident when you look at where a large amount of people from the US holiday (mainly in the states, and I'm not insulting by the way, I love America) but we tend to take far more interest over here in US issues and politics then you guys do in UK ones, I think largely because we are influenced by the US which is fine by me for many things. Again, not an insult.

"

 

Updated On: 9/24/15 at 02:03 PM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:16pm

 

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:18pm

It's your taking us to task for our 'bullSH*T' cries of racism that's arrogant, not your liking the show.  And I can't even begin to wrap my head around bringing up 24 in regards to this.  Just cause we are speaking about Scream Queens doesn't mean we don't understand that there are other shows that have troubling racial politics.  The fact is, an out, gay man with power plays into all the terribly misogynistic and racial stereotypes and then is all, 'PSYCHE!  It's a joke!'  It's the nadir of hack-iness.  We deserve better.  Both in terms of racial politics and entertainment.  I'm sitting here shaking my head at you bringing up Heathers, Mean Girls and (god help me) Cruel Intentions because the fact is, all three of those movies are faaaaaar better written than even a minute of Scream Queens.  And now you've made me defend Cruel In-F*CKing-tentions which is making me reach for a goddamned Twix.  

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:22pm

Ooooh Twix! Now I'm in the mood for one!

 

 

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:28pm

You can shake your head all you want, I'm not talking about the quality of the show here (I enjoyed it, if it's axed I won't really care) I'm just talking about that it seems odd that this show is getting called out for racism ( which it's doing in a 'mean girls' type tongue and cheek way' )yet so many other shows from reality shows in the 90s (Cops) to Sons of Anarchy (which I love) and Empire do this in a far more offensive way ( and in Empires case the writing is pretty terrible yet that's the biggest show on TV). And all I'm saying about the films mentioned is that's what Scream Queens is clearly playing off, I'm not commenting on the quality of either films or the show, I can see why many wouldn't like the show.

 

 

again, all I'm saying is the racist remarks seem a little OTT when you compare it to other shows on US TV that are doing far better. I also don't care if RM is strsight or gay, black or white, I'm just interested in the work, some will like and some won't, but I think the venom that so many spew out about his shows inc these extreme calls of racism are more aimed at him, or why don't I see that mentioned for all the shows that glorify racism far more and in a much more naturalistic telling?

[Alessio2]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:28pm

I couldn't get past the first 20 minutes. I was surprised because usually his shows start out decent before descending into total crap. This was total crap fro the start!!

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:30pm

I think episode one was deeply flawed and focused too much on Emma's mean girl act, episode 2 was far better and I hope that's what the show stays like.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:35pm

For the love of God, STOP COMPARING THIS TO MEAN GIRLS. It's in no way comparable. Mean Girls used genius writing and was an actual commentary on something. This is just Murphy checking off his list of every ethnicity, sexual orientation and disability that he can offend. I was just having this conversation with someone. There is a way to be "offensive" and still be funny and have your point come across and Ryan Murphy has no idea how to do that, nor does he have any desire to learn how to do that.

 

So stop comparing this to that film. Seriously.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:35pm

again, all I'm saying is the racist remarks seem a little OTT 

Not really.  It's a consistent theme in Ryan Murpy's works. People like to dismiss it as "oh, he's nasty to everyone equally" but it doesn't change the fact that his shows are full of this hipster racist bs.

Updated On: 9/24/15 at 02:35 PM

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:42pm

You can't compare two things and then leave out 'quality.'  Quality is the defining factor when discussing two different works in a comparative way.  You also can't leave out intent.  The mean girls of Mean Girls all had somewhat redemptive arcs that explained really well the price of being mean as a way to protect one's self.  Now...I know we're only two episodes in to Scream Queens, but there's no way we're going to get that kind of resolution.  And I say that as someone who watched the entirety of Glee (for very personal reasons) and who loved the first two seasons of AHS.  But since Asylum, the troubling racial and misogynistic undertones have been given full expression with no real purpose in sight.  

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:43pm

How long do you think before this show gets the axe?

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:45pm

But since this is a Murphy show, I'm sure in the next week or so, someone with Down's Syndrome will be introduced as Emma Roberts' sibling and she'll be totally redeemed in Murphy-land.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:45pm

Jordan do you just read one sent acne and play stupid or are you actually stupid? I've said I'm not comparing them in quality but the genre of the bitchy mean high school movies going right back to Heathers is CLEARLY what this first season is ripping on. From the Heather style 'Chanel's' or the Mean Girls 'plastics' the judging people based on appearance, the evil remarks thrown at anybody below them, it's in the same catogory. Disagree all you want about if you don't like or like the show, but don't be that thick when it comes to what I'm saying just so you can try and prolong some lame argument.

 

 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:48pm

You love to come here daily and prove what an ignorant ass you are. 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 2:58pm

 

[Steve C.]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 3:04pm

Geez! What did I start? ...so sorry; it's just a silly tv show...

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 3:06pm

Jordan no I love to come here and voice my own opinion and not be a sheep and judge things on their own merits. People like to argue with me because I don't agree, plain and simple, and I couldn't care less. When you have nothing left to say your default is insult, that's cool, I'm used to it.

 

And Robbie of course I can compare the 2 when I'm talking about the genres, the films and series are playing to the same genre, simple. That has nothing to do with quality. Jawbreaker was pretty awful, Mean Girls wasn't, yet both are the same genre.

 

Updated On: 9/24/15 at 03:06 PM

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 3:17pm

But...then what's the point??  It's such a shallow way of looking at two very different works.  You'd also need me to concede the point that Mean Girls and Scream Queens are, in fact, the same genre.  I don't agree.  Mean Girls is a teen comedy that explores actual issues about being young women and the damaging hierarchies that happen in high schools.  Scream Queens is a deliberately campy horror flick.  They actually are entirely different in structure and intent.  

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 3:17pm

Steve C. said: "Geez! What did I start? ...so sorry; it's just a silly tv show...

 

EXACTLY!

 

"

 

[Steve C.]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 3:37pm

Like I said at the start , I sometime give RM a pass b/c he got The Normal Heart made and directed material he did NOT write. It was Larry Kramer. Murphy still can't balance satire with wit and offending everyone. Just look to Trey Parker and Matt Stone for that excellence and quality in writing. ( look at how they're writing Caitlyn Jenner) Scream Queens may kill but South Park KILLS. 

[broadway86]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 4:08pm

Finally watched this morning, and enjoyed it. The harsh dialogue is something that the show could easily do without. All of my favorite bits from the first two episodes had more to do with timing and circumstances, and nothing to do with Chanel's incredibly hateful dialogue. (Chanel No. 2's scene with the Devil was awesome.)

 

Obviously it is on purpose, but that aspect can and should be toned down considerably, because it hampers the fun, though I have to give Emma Roberts props for committing 100%. She has never impressed me before, but she nailed several beats that, again, had all to do with timing and inflection.

 

Jamie Lee Curtis is a goddess, she is nailing this odd role so far, and I can't wait to see where it takes her. Glen Powell was hilarious as the unfathomably vacuous Chad. Hopefully, Jonas and Michele's characters become more defined quickly, because they both did well despite what little they were given. Breslin (surprisingly) and Grande (not so much) were nothing short of awful. I'm sticking around for another couple of weeks, I think the potential is there.

Updated On: 9/24/15 at 04:08 PM

[ClydeBarrow]

Posted: 9/24/15 at 4:11pm

I think everyone should just log out of this conversation.