Shame on Kristin Chenoweth- Page 10

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 10:44pm

man it's like the 60's that i never go to take part in...

one, two, three, four
we don't want your holy war
five, six, seven, eight
we'll show ya where to shove that hate

*sniff*

it's just so damn special

[bta212]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 10:45pm

Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya....

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 1:03am

I want to make it clear that I don't scorn people in my life for their beliefs! lol I just don't invest in people who won't invest in me. I have homophobic family members I love. I respect them when I see them--I hug them. All the usual stuff. But, I'm not close to these people. And, I am regarding the use of the words FRIEND and CLOSE in deeply special meanings--not the loose "oh, yeah--what's her name is a friend of mine." or "I did a show with him 10 years ago--we're friends".

I do see the tough call between shaking hands and trying to let someone learn by your example and flat out letting people know how it tis. We all have to make those calls.

But, bta, I just want clarification: do those anti-gay marriage people in your life accept you AND your partner? Is he included the same as if it was a girlfriend? Because, if I had a boyfriend and someone disrespected me/him--family or otherwise--there would be WORDS.

And, the more I think about it--yes, it PISSES me off to think that a "friend" of mine doesn't think I should have the same rights as them. What kind of a friend is that?

[Nina Myers]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 1:08am

Maybe she did it do get more Republicans to go see Broadway shows...

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 1:12am

and monkeys might fly out of my butt!

[bta212]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 1:25am

Oh Lord, yes, jrb--love me, love him, want us to adopt kids (i.e. re-create their ideal marriage), but these are older, Greek-Americans, and just deeply ingrained in their beliefs. Yes, it's a barrier to that last degree of closeness, but we have a history together and I love them and they (I know) love me.
Their religion is so central to their lives, but I don't "believe". I would be hurt if they rejected me on those terms, and while it's really not fully analagous, I'm trying to say that we agree to disagree about things that are pretty major to each of us.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 3:36am

good. I guess these days the support your family IS giving you is plenty! So many families do not support. My close family is cool. But, I have never brought a guy home for the holidays to test it. I'm sure it would be cool.

And who knows? If you had a wedding, your family might surprise you. It reminds me of a section of Bill Crystal's show.

[Justice]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 12:01pm

I was responding to someone about the "Hate" is a very strong word. Here is my thing, I am a religionist, not a racist. I see the way middle America works, and though I did not say ALL, I see so much hypocrisy when it comes to religion. I have been on other message boards where "Christians" have spewed their hatred for certain things, such as homosexuality and atheism. If they truly believed in the Bible, they would follow it and truly "Love thy neighbor", but they don't. (Or they would follow the Bible where it tells you to stone homosexuals or any other sinner when you see them on the street - and believe it or not, that is in the New Testament after the teachings of Jesus Christ)
The sad thing about this country, is that there is supposed to be a separation of Church and State, but with Bush in office, that is a false statement. Our forefathers ran from their country to escape persecution from religion, and here we are 5 hundred and something years later, and Christianity is being forced down our throats, once again, with the Right Wing Christian Coalition taking over.
I grew up a Christian, and the Christian church I attended had no feelings for Jews, or any other religion that wasn't Christian (Baptist, Catholic, etc.)
I don't believe in Christianity. I don't believe in the Bible. What I do believe in is instinct. That is how we truly live our lives.
So, now that I have brought up the topic of religion on this board (and expect to be crucified for it)...Discuss...

(But, keep in mind, regardless of Kristin's belief's, I am a fan, and love her work. I'm seeing her at Carnegie next week.)

Updated On: 1/16/05 at 12:01 PM

[Spooky]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 1:15pm

Hang on a second, let's not rewrite history here.
The founding fathers did NOT flee from religious persecution, nor did they think church/state should be separated (that came along in the 1940's via the Supreme Court). In fact Ben Franklin is the one who instituted prayer before educational classes. The US was founded solely on the repulsion of King George and for pretty much, economic purposes.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Christian propaganda is actually the reason most people believe that there was religious persecution and take the above line from the 1st Amendment as proof.
But there was NO persecution.
So Justice, you may hate Christians, but you are not a very good atheist either. DO NOT tell us in one breath that you hate people who are preachy and in the next do the same damn thing.
I don't care if you worship, God, Satan, L. Ron Hubbard or the NY Post. The biggest hypocrite here, is you. You can't defend your ridiculous rhetoric, so you'll hide behind religion???
Your instincts suck.

[Justice]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 1:31pm

First of all, don't persecute me for my beliefs on the matter. Second, if the Pilgrims didn't come here to escape persecution, then what did they come here for? (Okay, so I said forefathers...big difference) Regardless of when the separation of Church and state was put into effect, it is overlooked, constantly.
Third, I never said I hate people who are preachy and then turn around and preach myself. What I said is that Christianity is being forced down our throats. This is proof everytime George Bush makes a speech.
Fourth, I am not telling anyone what to believe. (In other words - not preaching) I am stating my opinion.

"I don't care if you worship, God, Satan, L. Ron Hubbard or the NY Post. The biggest hypocrite here, is you. You can't defend your ridiculous rhetoric, so you'll hide behind religion???"

I think you're reading further into this than what I wrote. I must have offended you in some way.


P.S. Oops. I saw an opportunity to post an opinion, and ran with it. I'll carry the cross. But someone else will have to carry the nails.

Updated On: 1/16/05 at 01:31 PM

[Spooky]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 3:09pm

I can't even, so I won't.

[LittleBitRacist]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 7:15pm

Justice, no reason to apologize. what you said wasnt "hypocritical" at all, and i personally agree with you. The Christians beliefs DO condrict themselves a lot...and sorry to whoever was offended, but Justice didnt just say she hated christians, and since this is a message board there is bound to be some disagreement. jeez, no reason to jump on her.

[Spooky]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 7:22pm

Justice said he/she was a religionist not a racist. Implying that instead of hating someone for skin color, you hate them for religion.
The reason I came to that conclusion was because the word "religionst" means a religious zealot or someone extremely devoted to a religion. So obviously, Justice is quite confused. Pilgrims...founding fathers...
I mean, if you're going to put something down, at least know what the heck it is you're saying.

[Plum]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 7:30pm

Uh, careful when you assign bit-time religious motives to Franklin. He, like a few other Founding Fathers, was actually more of a Deist than anything else, which was a bit controversial back then. And Franklin was a big enemy of what he saw as useless doctrine- to him, religion was only as good as it was useful.

[Spooky]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 7:34pm

He was the least religious of all the founding fathers, but he still instilled prayer before school (I think it was down for what is now called special interest groups)

[Plum]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 7:37pm

He also fought with Pennsylvania's Quaker-dominated government about the need to defend American settlements from raids (I think by Native Americans, but I'm not absolutely sure). Like I said, he liked religion as long as it was useful.

[whateverrr]

Posted: 1/16/05 at 8:16pm

I'm sure there's plenty of people who will still love her for the performances she gives. It's not politics, she's an entertainer, for crying out loud.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 1/17/05 at 7:09am

Ok, I checked online, and even went to the offical Inauguration website, and I do not ever seen Chenoweth being mentioned.

http://www.inaugural05.com/events/#calendar

The only thing I found was that the next West Wing episode is called "Inauguration" in which she guest stars in.

I'll be laughing my ass off if this rumor wasn't true and she never was going to perform in the inauguration. Talk about much ado about nothing.

And even if she does perform, which is weird that she's not even mentioned on the website, I don't know how one can really make a valid assumption that she's a homophobic ultra-conservative person by doing this. I could turn around and call her a bleeding heart liberal for doing The West Wing since the West Wing is known to be slanted towards the left. I know many of you hate Chenoweth and hate that she's Christian and loved this opportunity to bash her, but come on...

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 1/17/05 at 7:23am

"I don't know how one can really make a valid assumption that she's a homophobic ultra-conservative person by doing this."

I don't know how this became an issue either.

Posted: 1/17/05 at 8:57am

For those who were asking, a website that lists companies that supported the Dems is http://www.buyblue.org/. They currently also have a list of the companies that are donating to this $40 million wartime inaugural extravaganza.

Here is a start toward supporting the Blue - buy stuff from Barnes and Noble, not Amazon!

Pseudolus' Blog

[sweetiedarlinmia]

Posted: 1/17/05 at 9:13am

I have sat back throughtout this WHOLE thing, but I just need to get something off my chest. I know there are tons of religious zealots who use the Bible to justify every form of hatred that they can muster. Believe me, I live in the south with this. The same thing happens with the Koran. Is that what that religion is about? NO! The only reason that religions become divisive is when PEOPLE manipulate them to suit their own interests. Yes I understand the Bible contradicts itself. Every text has some contradiction in it because hey! we people often contradict ourselves. We are fluid individuals who change our minds. Whether it's good or bad, that's for you to decide, but we all do it.

All this is to say this: I beg you to not clump every person together in groups because we are all different. Yes, I am a Christian and have no problem saying that. BUT I do not follow the same strand of religion/zealotry that allows for my friends of different religion, sexual orientation, etc to be persecuted. Just because there are people who would rather hurt than help and wear Christianity as their reasoning does NOT mean every Christian is this way. Just like every Muslim does not hate America and does not believe it is their religious duty to destroy non-Muslims.

I tend to think of it like this: Not to long ago bigots used Christianity to justify their hatred of African-Americans(They also used science, as they also try to use with hatred against homosexuality). Folks, Bigots use whatever is neccessary to justify hatred. Unfortunately,religion just seems the easiest thing to use. I don't like that manipulation anymore than you do. Updated On: 1/17/05 at 09:13 AM

Posted: 1/17/05 at 9:34am

Sweetiedarlin': I believe that the people who call themselves "christians" and are promoting the hate-filled agenda are a small percentage of the overall christian population. Unfortunately, they are extremely well-organized and have taken control of public discourse on "moral" issues. Many of my own family members voted for Bush not because they agreed with him but because, well, at least he is a Christian (who never goes to church when he isn't campaigning, btw).

Part of the problem is that, just as the Republicans have grabbed control of political discourse while the Democrats slept at the wheel, the radical right has usurped the word "christian" while the religious progressives have done little to stop them. I am forgetting who said this first, but a well-organized minority can grab power from a passive and ignorant majority. The communists in Russia were a minority, as were the Nazis in Germany.

The UCC has started to fight back, but it is up to people like you and your church to get your message out - that "christianity" doesn't equate with hating gays and subjugating women. Religious progressives need to speak out and speak loud. If this issue bothers you, you should talk to you pastor.
Pseudolus' Blog

[Plum]

Posted: 1/17/05 at 1:45pm

Pseudulus, don't a lot of those companies donate on both sides of the aisle?

[Spooky]

Posted: 1/17/05 at 1:51pm

According to her website, there's an announcement up that she's NOT doing any performances now.

Posted: 1/17/05 at 2:00pm

Plum - yes, many companies give to both, but not in the same amounts. Overall, the Republicans got 93% of total corporate donations. The Democrats ended up outraising the Republicans because of small donors via the internet, as started by the Howard Dean campaign.

So BuyBlue lists the organizations thus:

Dark Blue: 80% or higher Buy Blue rating
Light Blue: 56-79% Buy Blue rating
Neutral: 45-55% Buy Blue rating
Light Red: 21-44% Buy Blue rating
Dark Red: 20% or lower Buy Blue rating

Ironically, they redesigned their website, and I don't find Barnes & Noble listed. I had read that they gave all of their PAC money to the Democrats, but I will need to research.

Other booksellers (which traditionally support freedom of speech and are against censorship):

Amazon.com, Inc. 41% (light Red)
Borders Group, Inc. 100% (VERY BLUE)

Other popular stores:

Bed, Bath & Beyond Inc 97% (VERY BLUE)
Best Buy Co., Inc. 0% (Extremely Red, so is Circuit City)

Etc.
Website: http://www.buyblue.org/index.html

There is another website doing the same thing. When I find the address, I'll post it.