Shame on Kristin Chenoweth- Page 7

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 3:23am

"And I hardly think it's unfair for you to say that President Bush "hates" Gays, just because he doesn't support us.

I have good friends who don't support my lifestyle, but still love me as a person. And they too have a right to believe whatever the hell they want."

I'm sorry to have to say this, but this is self-hate rhetoric at its worst. I used to preach the same thing about myself to justify all the adversity I was experiencing over sexual orientation. "Well, they're only bashing me because it's a part of their religion, so I have to accept that..." "They won't allow me to talk about it to them because it's against their faith..."

Nonsense. The people who don't support your "lifestyle" (i.e. support YOU) aren't "good friends." And they certainly don't love you "as a person" if they disapprove of something as central to your identity as sexual orientation. Why are you fooling around with them when you could have more friends who would be supportive of you? You deserve better than that. I hope that one day you will come to realize that you need not be supportive of their views - because by letting you call them your friends while also disrespecting you by "not supporting [your] lifestyle," they certainly aren't respecting your views. You should be using your identity to promote acceptance, NOT prejudice - which is exactly what you're inadvertently doing. Tough truth, hun, but it is still the truth. If your friends are not learning to view "gay" as a legitimate identity from you, then who will teach them? And they do need to be taught. Their views are NOT acceptable - it's the same thing as racism and sexism, both of which have been sanctioned by various institutions (especially religion) in the past.

Moreover, it's completely fair of the original poster to say that Bush "hates" gays "just because he doesn't support us." The original poster doesn't have to use kind words when talking about anyone's prejudices.

I'm sending this to you in a PM as well. Updated On: 1/15/05 at 03:23 AM

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 3:29am

"Not true at all. I have friends who are extremely religious, and because of their beliefs do not accept homosexuality, but they love me enough to accept me. Being gay is not 100% of who you are - any more than being Republican, Democrat, skinny, or short is. You'll learn that the longer you live."

More rhetoric based on years of ugliness from the right. And I used to believe it myself until someone practically slapped the truth in me. I truly believe that you older gays and lesbians can learn the meaning of respect from us younger ones! Updated On: 1/15/05 at 03:29 AM

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 3:40am

"Also, being gay is only a major part of you if you CHOOSE to make it a major part of you. I don't see straight people running around with Straight Pride paraphernalia. If they did, I'm sure that the gay community would flip their lid. I, myself, am a gay man, but I choose not to make it a big thing because there is so much else to know about me. When I meet someone new, I never tell them I'm gay. Eventually, they just realize it. There is SO much more to people than their sexual orientation, and that goes for gay, straight, bi, etc."

This kind of rhetoric has really pervaded this thread, hasn't it? I'm really saddened that you sympathize with your antagonizers, but even more saddened by the fact that you don't understand the historical importance of coming out, wearing pride flags, etc. I have a LONG list of books that I wish you could read so that you can understand that the gay rights movement is not something to be dismissed, as your post does, but rather something that logically came about as a result of a variety of circumstances that still affect you today. Yes, there is "SO much more" to people than sexual orientation, but that's no excuse for you to go out of your way to justify heterosexism and homophobia.

And btw, waiting for people to "eventually just realize" your sexual orientation is the easy way out. The reality is that if you don't tell them, many will just assume that you're in the closet and uncomfortable with your identity. And if they're homophobic, then they'll continue to believe that they can disrespect the "quietly" queer people in their lives without any ill will in return.

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 3:44am

"How you'd all be crying foul if someone tried to tell you you couldn't take a job that would advance your career because their beliefs didn't jell with yours."

Uh, hello, that's what conservatives have been telling us for decades! Most people here aren't saying that the performer can't "take the job" - they're saying that by firmly placing herself within a political belief system that oppresses them, she's inviting them to STOP supporting her career, which is their right.

Will I not see shows just because she's in it? I doubt it. She's a great singer. But it's abnormal for a Broadway performer to throw themselves into politics in a way that will guarantee them national exposure, especially as the ball (or parts of it) are shown on television. She's practically asking for people to have a hard time seeing her in character anymore. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how - if in any way - this impacts the woman's career. Updated On: 1/15/05 at 03:44 AM

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 3:48am

"We should all be listening to Ragtime right now, or talking about how bad Brooklyn is!"

XXveGan, it is appalling that you would suggest that we go off and listen to Ragtime rather than discuss this issue. You completely missed the point of the show and Doctorow's intentions with Ragtime too! It is a story about exactly what you suggested we do - people turning their backs to the issues. I'm tempted to tell you never to mention Ragtime again until you really think about what the story means. :) J/K. Updated On: 1/15/05 at 03:48 AM

[Spooky]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 7:13am

bta212 I wasn't cranky until I read this thread.
I just think Chenoweth was portrayed in unfair light. I think this decision of hers to perform has nothing to do with politics and more to do with self-promotion. If people are going to slam her at least get your facts straight.

[Justice]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 8:56am

Gloria Estefan - who is big in the gay Latin community also performed.
I say, whatever. Kristin is from Oklahoma. She's Christian, too. Most Christian's hate gays, just as I hate most Christian's.
Regardless, none of this takes away the talent that she has.

[Katecab99]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 11:18am

I'm Christian and I love the "gays". Done.

"hate" is a super strong word, and one should be VERY careful regarding when and how it is used.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 11:19am

the people who don't support your "lifestyle" (i.e. support you) aren't "good friends."

do you truly believe that it's impossible to be friends with someone who disagrees with one aspect of your life? so republicans and dems should move to isolated conclaves and never speak again and start the fortification process as they are enemies?

i truly believe that you older gays and lesbians can learn the meaning of respect from us younger ones!

if i were gay, mister, i would teach you the meaning of the word respect you young whippersnapper!

she's practically asking for people to have a hard time seeing her in character anymore.

because she played the innauguration? poppy*ck! then i suppose any celebrity who takes up a political cause that in any way goes against some segment of their support base should accept that people cannot see them in character? well, i guess sean penn, susan sarandon, babs, martin sheen, vincent gallo, tom selleck, ben affleck, and so many others might as well start looking for new day jobs since their political actions have ruined any chance for anyone to see them in character again. what odious bulls***!

this kind of all or nothing attitude might sound great when you're surrounded by people who agree with you, but the world unfortunately has an ugly way of making people who disagree with you. you can isolate yourself from them, demonize them and tell yourself that their views are ignorant and myopic and cruel, but that's not going to change them. until you learn to engage people who believe and live differently from you and accept them and treat them with the respect you so desperately crave, you are neither worthy of their respect nor deserving. cocoon yourself in with like minded people and see how much change you accomplish other than segmenting the population even further and developing deeper and deeper divides.

Posted: 1/15/05 at 11:21am

Papa - this is OUR corner - go to your room

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 11:26am

Screw off, papa. :) I do not respect your views. :) Deal. :)

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 11:31am

Like I said, Rathnait is pre-Stonewall. I appreciate Evelyn's contributions.

People who don't see that their gayness as a fundamental part of who they are, and the fact that it completely shapes their worldview, are delusional.

Posted: 1/15/05 at 11:33am

Even though he already knows this, I want to re-iterate in a public forum: while Papa and I disagree on some fundamental philosophies and sociological interpretations, I ALWAYS respect his viewpoint as being considered and relevant to the known facts as he perceives them. And I know that no matter how much we might disagree, we'll always be able to respect each other's rights and reality.

[renthead2005z]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 11:43am

Bush is soo stupid! I hate him!

[Adoannie925]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 11:45am

I'm upset, but I had a hunch that she supported Bush. She does have the right, just as we have the right to support Kerry or whoever else we want to support, but I don't agree with her decision to support, let alone perform for Bush.

[Jacques_Clouseau]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 11:59am

lets 'git her!!!!!!!
*lights torch*
How DARE she perform at a historical event, thus securing recognition and record sales such that she can make a living in the entertainment business!!!

Segregation rules.

[Plum]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 12:22pm

Gee, and here I thought we lived in a country founded on pluralism. My mistake.

[BroadwayGal3]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 12:23pm

People, this is escalating out of control.

KC is entitled to her own views, as are each of us, gay or straight, pro or anti Bush.

ENOUGH!!

[Plum]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 12:24pm

Nope, I don't think that's right either. Along with pluralism comes discussion and engagement, without which our fair democratic republic would die an ignominious death.

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 12:30pm

"Nope, I don't think that's right either. Along with pluralism comes discussion and engagement, without which our fair democratic republic would die an ignominious death."

Yes.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 12:44pm

"thus securing recognition and record sales such that she can make a living in the entertainment business!!!"

Yep, it all comes down to this one gig. That's what's standing between Kristian and dressing like the lovable poor people in BKLYN.

[DBillyP]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 1:07pm

I posted this on the other thread about this topic, and I will also post it here:

Her best friend is gay and she sang several years ago at the world's largest lesbian and gay church for Easter Sunday, I am pretty sure she is a little more liberal-minded than your typical conservative, right-wing, fundamentalist Christian...like "W."

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 1:10pm

I'm very grateful for such crumbs from the table.

[DBillyP]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 1:13pm

(I had to change the thread title...)

You might be surprised to know that one of Bush's most trusted advisors is a long-time Bush family friend who is openly gay. He was profiled in, I believe, Time Magazine.

Bush's public stand on gay marriage was a political love to help get himself elected. I think he is less hateful of the gays that one might think.

For the record, I think the man is a sham of a "President," and I in no way support him or his administration. I am simply trying to encourage rational thinking.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/15/05 at 1:22pm

No, I'm not surprised by anything. At all. I am sure the "trusted advisor" gets bigger crumbs than everybody else. And I'm sure he does some amazing rationalizations to get through his, I am sure, very economically secure life.

Just like I am not surprised that Armstrong Williams, deeply closeted homosexual, took LOTS of tax payers' money to shill for Bush's economic plan and education, I guess you could call them, initiatives. What is there left to be surprised about, I ask you?

Crumbs from the table. That's always been enough to satisfy the do-nothings of the Human Rights Campaign, the biggest homosexual ladies and gentlemans fund raising conglomerate (for really that's all they are) who never actually ACCOMPLISH anything except for showing up at press conferences when somebody else manages to get something done.

In fact, gay people who are not satisfied by a meal of crumbs should seriously consider removing those STUPID equal signs off the bumpers of their jeeps.

And not be suprised by anything Kristen Chenoweth does.