The Debates Thread- Page 7

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:30am

papa, you're in a wonderful mood tonight.

I hope the new wee one is doing well.

I wonder how all of those veterans groups will respond to the "love" line from McCain?
Updated On: 9/27/08 at 01:30 AM

[snl89]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:36am

snl, here's a shovel. keep at it.

namo, mac and i and sarah will pray for you

So I'm trying to understand this:
is it purely because I disagree with you that you think I'm digging myself into a hole? Because honestly I'm not even debating right now. And I dont *think* that I'm contradicting myself either. So unless I'm missing something (would anyone else like to enlighten me if this is the case?), you're the one who's making ridiculous comments, not me

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:37am

Iraq and Afghanistan Disabled American Vets gave Gimpy a D grade and Barack Obama a B grade.

When asked about Gimpy's "I love them" line with his paternalistic "I will take care of them" mantra, veteran Jon Soltz who founded VoteVets.org just told Rachel Maddow "It's a joke at this point." He pointed out that Gimpy voted against funding that would have purchased body armor for soldiers.

I guess Gimpies love company?

Gosh, the facts sure don't stack up for G.

Updated On: 9/27/08 at 01:37 AM

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:40am

What is a screenname? What is snl? Why would you pray for me?

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:41am

I have not watched Maddow.

Funny, I have a feeling that those who listened to the debate on the radio found it much more even, or perhaps even in favor of McCain, but those that watched it, with McCain's body language and his clear desire not to look Obama in the eye, found that Obama won.

I found McCain more compelling when I was listening, and not watching him.

And, I guess he agrees that we have tortured people, and will vote for the bailout. And, that Pakistan was a failed state.

Thursday night should be interesting.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:44am

If, as Rachel just said, by "failed state" you mean "democratically elected government that was removed by Musharraf's military coup? Okay."

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:45am

because votevets is a nonpartisan group. that's like asking gun-owning pentacostals what they thought of bammy's line out in san fran way back when. i bet they didn't care for it. perhaps next they can re-convene the vvaw and ask them what they think of mac.

i don't think ya *think* much, snl. which is probably a good thing for all of us.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:45am

I think Obama won the first half handily, and McCain scored on the second half but apparently the common feeling is that most people were tuning out by that point anyway. I think both of them reinforced standing narratives about themselves (Obama is the newcomer, the change agent, McCain is the experienced Bush pol). Obama wins the night because he looked presidential, prepared, and confident. McCain loses because he looked old, mean, and he did not successfully make his case for a narrative, a reason to be president.

The reason why, ultimately, I believe Obama will win is because he has a narrative, a mission. McCain has only his sense of entitlement. Obama continues to stay calm, presidential, and that's why the polls are sliding to him as more people come to trust him.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:48am

It's just so darned hard to find citizens who live in an operating theater level of issues-related sterility nowadways, isn't it! That's what's led to this absolutely bizarre American fetishization and lionization of "the undecideds." The only people who's opinions really count are those who CAN'T MAKE UP THEIR MINDS!

It sure would be JUST AWFUL if VoteVets point out Gimpy's anti-veteran voting record, which is real, in a way that's as effective as the points made by Swift Boaters for Truth, which was not. Because, you know, they're biased.

Updated On: 9/27/08 at 01:48 AM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:53am

and i am sure they are an uncannily accurate indicator of veterans as a whole. just as code pink is of women and the log cabin republicans are of gay men.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:57am

Well, if you go by actual donations to campaigns, then Obama is favored by current military men and women.

[snl89]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:58am

i don't think ya *think* much, snl. which is probably a good thing for all of us.

This is so not even worth it, but, just because, I will say it

ONE LAST TIME, I will explain my position just to make it perfectly clear for you, alright?:
I do not support McCain, and never could. I simply sympathize, on a human level, with the fact that he went through so much, but do not believe that should have any effect on the way people vote because what he went through has nothing to do with his ability to run a country. Therefore, I find it FRUSTRATING that he keeps pushing it down our throats because it IS easy enough to sympathize with that I feel some other people MIGHT be swayed to vote for him out of sympathy.

Now I'm done here, because obviously you're just not going to get it no matter how much I explain it or how clear I make it :)

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 2:01am

Sorry, YWIW, people who donate to campaigns are not nonpartisan.

THOSE vets don't count.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 2:10am

Hmmmm.

I guess the whole putting your money where your mouth is, especially for the men and women actually serving abroad, doesn't really count.

Somehow it will all be Clinton's fault anyway. It is amazing how powerful Bill Clinton is, especially 8 years out of office.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 2:13am

Putting money where one's mouth is? No no no.

"I love them," Gimpy said of the vets.

But what has he done for them lately?

[Q]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 2:13am

"It is amazing how powerful Bill Clinton is"

Yet, all that power doesn't seem to give him the ability to say the name Obama with any regularity.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 2:13am

Blah blah blah.

Another "independent" (read: libertarian, read: conservative but gay) voice heard from.

Updated On: 9/27/08 at 02:13 AM

[Q]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 2:20am

"Another "independent" (read: libertarian, read: conservative but gay) voice heard from."

Or Chris Rock.

Whom I believe you were just crediting recently with telling the truth . . .

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 2:23am

Who just last night clarified exactly what he meant while on Larry King, you might want to look for it and update your reference points.

Clinton's Obama issue was on the Letterman appearance. Only.

[Q]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 2:24am

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea MAXIMA culpa.

Had to edit and add that 'maxima' part. I really AM a lapsed Catholic.
Updated On: 9/27/08 at 02:24 AM

[KrissySim]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 3:44am

snl89 The POW thing is a tactic McCain can fall back on when he is losing an argument or wants to skirt an issue. It's calculated. It implies that if you are patriotic you will vote for him because he is an American hero, and you can't deny he was a hero. Or on the flip side, if you don't vote for him you are not patriotic, because he is an American hero. (Where's my flag... or... should I say "where's my violin" ?)

I'm glad my friend Mamby sees that it is really all about Palin, because in all probability if McCain is elected she will end up being President. I'm sure Mamby isn't afraid of a lot of attention being placed on Palin.

With a quagmire in the Middle East and a collapsing economy, the polls should be 90% Obama 6% McCain and the rest undecided. How could this not be blamed on the Bush administration for which McCain was a staunch supporter? How is McCain going to be any different or better?

[LePetiteFromage]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 4:00am

Updated On: 1/13/09 at 04:00 AM

[KrissySim]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 4:06am

Ah, someone is awake at this hour!

Yeah, you can't really praise the demos for a job well done.

On that depressing note, I think I'll turn-in for the night.

[LePetiteFromage]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 4:12am

Updated On: 1/13/09 at 04:12 AM

[StockardFan]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 7:46am

snl, just for the record I totally understood what you were saying.

lepetitefromage, I agree. Two totally underwhelming performances. I call no wins.