The Debates Thread- Page 8

[madbrian]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 8:25am

Below is a link to www.fivethirtyeight.com's overall analysis on why Obama was perceived to have won the debate in most of the polls. They're critical of pundits scoring it like a prize fight, when viewers care far less about Russia than they do about the economy and Iraq. And much of Obama's positives come from connecting with people and his overall manner compared to McCain's. Also, many of the internal polls regarding Obama's readiness went WAY up. Warning: the website in the link tends to be wonky, and has links to other sights that are even wonkier.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/why-voters-thought-obama-won.html

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 8:38am

Are the debates still on? Or is this just the after-party that wouldn't die?

[misschung]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 9:10am

Obama's last response was beautifully put. And I enjoyed his "you were wrong" accusations. Overall, I think his opening with specifics of his plan for the economy was a big improvement over his usual more general statements. According to the CNN team, McCain was impressive citing all those names of leaders in the Middle East, although he pretty much set up his VP candidate for failure in doing so, IMO.

That whole "party reaction" meter at the bottom of the screen was distracting. How exactly did that work, anyway?

And is it just me, or did Jim Lehrer have like 40 cups of coffee before that debate?

[supportivemom]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 9:15am

Well, if this was supposed to be McCain's strong point (foreign policy) and he has more than 20 years on Obama- then Obama held his own. Neither one won the debate. To me, this would mean that Obama should do really well on the other debates since he did well on this debate. Listening to both parties last night- they both thought they won- but seeing the audience responses- seems like Obama scored pretty well. On CNN last night, they received a Kissinger statement that sided with what McCain said. However, the clip of him with the other foreign leaders was more in line with what Obama said about sitting down with Iran, etc. Biden once again called Palin a formidable debater. Of course, since the expectations will be so low for her- it will be interesting what people will think. Of course, on Fox last night, their viewer poll had McCain winning at 80+%. I also noticed that the viewer responses on CNN last night showed a flat line on the Republican side for Obama's comments- what a surprise! CNN had commentators from both sides, Anderson Cooper, and Chritianne Amanpour (sp). I view their panel as less biased.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 9:15am

40 cups of coffee and some bad Botox.

[Bickle]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 9:25am

Barry looking at his bracelet was the most bone cringing moment in forty years of debate history. That was really, really bad. ..

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 9:59am

Okay, I'll feed the troll, but just this once...

Worse than McCain's pancake makeup to hide those age spots?

Remind me again what he uses on his face... is it Dutchboy beige? All weather?

That was right up there with the botched Nixon makeup job back in the Kennedy debates where he looked like a clown.

[WindyCityActor]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 10:17am

Why does his make-up remind me of the final scene in "Death Becomes Her".....for a $5,000 make-up job McCain looks awful....

[kelzama]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 10:42am

On the topic of subjects that have absolutely nothing to do with the substance of the debate:

Whereas McCain largely resembled a cottonball on shoulders, Obama had a strange zombie-esque pallor of gray-brown, with one spot under his right nostril that looked like a sweat bead or a booger, depending on the angle.

Very strange color choices for both.

Between the makeup depts and the lighting crew, both candidates got shortchanged.
Updated On: 9/27/08 at 10:42 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 10:43am

I didn't see a booger.

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 10:43am

...and I was watching in hi-def.

It can be a scary thing. Sometimes it's WAY too much information.



EDIT: I didn't see a booger either, but I did see makeup, and two very tired men. McCain was really slathered, though. I could see the Silly Putty marks. And he was all one color, like he'd been dipped. And that thin, white combover. Yikes.

Updated On: 9/27/08 at 10:43 AM

[javero]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 11:04am

PJ wrote, "Obama is not good enough at this. He stammers and yammers on and undercuts himself. He needs to make a strong point and STOP so it can sink in."

I'll add that Obama needs to learn to "hit it and quit it". Last night, he was prone to slip into "Hillaritis". Hillaritis is a condition which afflicted Hillary early in the Dem primaries. The most prominent symptom is a pus-spewing state of perpetual wonkiness. He went into too much damned detail with numbers and percentages.

Jeez Obama...just use generic markers likely "substantial, significant, major increase, off the chart, even "helluva lot more" etc. And for Pete's sake, DON'T enumerate your points. Anyone who's ever been on a debate team or spoken in public knows that 3 points in support of an argument is ideal according to conventional wisdom. However, when Obama starts counting off his points, it comes off as too rehearsed. He must speak from the heart and gut at times during these debates and not slip into Toastmaster-mode.

Margeret Thatcher and Gordon Brown of England would have left a puddle of blood where McCain stood last night. The British press would be conducting a postmortem on McCain's cadaver as I type.

While I found McCain's constant smirk and HIDEOUS TEETH almost unbearable, he was extremely effective at making Obama appear weak, naive and almost effete. Obama could stand to put on a good 20lbs. The lack of heft in his upper body works against him on TV but I digress.

I'm convinced that McCain has been working with an acting coach also. He gave Obama his back throughout the entire debate which is the straight male equivalent to "talk to the hand biatch". Somehow McCain has discovered how to "emote" on cue just in time to win the "patriot vote".

Obama could have countered by stepping away from the lectern and towards McCain. He needed to get in McCain's face. Meat-and-potato Americans want to see a macho presidential contest with stones prominently on display, not an argument before the Supreme Court. The smirk, grimaces, cringes and lack of acknowledgment from McCain while Obama deliberated sent a subliminal message to McCain's base and indies.

I gotta give Chris Matthews credit for going where no other journalist would go last night about Obama's disappointing outing. He dared mention that it was Obama's "least ethnic showing", which was spot-f**ckin-on! Folks that know how to read the political tea leaves saw Obama as whitewashed to the point of being barely recognizable.

The liberal media was quick to give Obama the edge but I was less than awed by him last night. Perhaps it could be attributed to first round jitters. He needs to "butch" it up a helluva lot if he expects to change his mailing address to 1600 Penn Ave NW, Washington, DC. He's going up against a war hero while the nation is at war, a seasoned politico with Machiavellian instincts and someone who can clobber him with an "earmarks club" at will.

Obama needs to stop agreeing with McCain and start kicking his azz by any means necessary. There's an abundance of ammo that can be used against McCain but Obama has to get over his momentary crisis of confidence & Oedipus hangup. Kill father!

Updated On: 9/27/08 at 11:04 AM

[Bickle]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 11:05am

I'm so glad you brought up the Nixon connection cause Barry ain't no Jack Kennedy.

[artscallion]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 11:09am

Here's a leaked shot of McCain's original debate makeup, scrapped at the last minute. It was originally felt that Palin's up-do and red jacket were so popular that this look might have twice the effect for McCain.

Updated On: 9/27/08 at 11:09 AM

[blueroses]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 11:10am

Is that Glenn Close?

[Elphaba]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 11:20am

McCain came off as a pompous petculant (sp?)child.....kept trying to be Obamas political Daddy and it came of poorly.

The idea of that wanker as President with that stupid, I repeat STUPID beotch as VO is truly scary.....as she proved in her interview with Couric, she knows NOTHING......

If this country is so stupid to put that pair in the White House, then we deserve what we get.

But I do not think that will happen.
I think the American public will send the little stupid witch back to North Alabama, oops I mean Alaska and McCain back to count his medals and dwell in the past

[Bickle]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 11:52am

Obama appeared to be unprepared in the area of foreign policy. He doesn't know the difference between tactics and strategy. 143 days in the senate just haven't prepared him for the real world. Going to Berlin and making platitudinous statements apologizing for the United States is one thing, governing and understanding the world is another.

He sure can look at a bracelet and read a name.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 11:55am

[javero]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 11:58am

Elphaba--

In boxing, a challenger has to "knock out" the champion. The former rarely if ever wins on points. Last night was Obama's opportunity to send McCain out on a gurney but he played Mr. Nice. McCain only had to stay with Obama to come out ahead.

Johnny Mac will do anything to win this election. Next week, after the government's fiscal year ends, he will kick Sarah Palin to the curb. Beware her replacement!

There is one man out there with better social conservative cred than Sarah Palin. And he governed his state for more than 2 years. He also was the best orator during his party's primaries even if the message gave most of us indigestion for days at a clip. The Sarah Palin Experiment will be over real soon.

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 12:09pm

McCain is a bull in a china shop. He has no inclination toward diplomacy and honestly lacks high level leadership skills. Merely making a decision is not a leadership skill. Making a considered and informed decision is.

McCain is sorely out of touch with the majority of citizens, as evidenced by his smart ass remark about asking Obama what constitutes rich. Doesn't he realize most people agreed with Obama?

After the debate I watched the Charlie Rose show which was chock full of talking heads, though not the silly ones cable and network TV have turned into celebrities. It was surprising to see that many didn't seem to recognize the common connections voters make between the political parties and their perceived interests. Is it really unknown that Republicans are seen as aligning with most big business, especially the oil companies and Wall Street, and the nation's wealthy? Is it really a surprise that calls were running 100 to 1 against bailing out Wall Street? It was a little shocking to hear Charlie Rose say that few effects of this crash have been felt yet, except possibly by employees of Lehman Bros., when many outside of Washington and Wall Street have already lost their jobs and houses and feel that the impact of Wall Street's practices played out in the rest of the country is what caused the crash.

[DAME]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 12:13pm

[javero]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 12:44pm

yawper--

The GOP spin on it is that too many Americans were trying to sip champagne on a beer budget. They are also starting to hang the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac albatross on Bill Clinton's neck. The GOP is clever at reprimanding the Average Joe and Jane for their spendthrift ways and dispensing "discipline" when it comes to "country first". It still baffles my mind that Obama allows McCain to distance himself from Dubya's wanton spending.

Greed on the part of banks making zero-down balloon loans to folks who ordinarily wouldn't qualify as well as the avarice of speculators gobbling up investment property with cheap loan money is somehow absent from the talking points of Bush-aligned talking heads.

I don't like any version of the bailout plan on the table but it simply has to happen. Without it, things will become a lot worst.

Please note that we're witnessing the political ascent of House Minority Leader John Boehner during this whole bailout debacle. Many of my GOP colleagues and friends are starting to say that Boehner's tough stance against the Bush/Paulson $700B bailout makes him look "pretty Vice Presidential". He's from Ohio by the way. His voting record is available at the link below.

Both Obama and McCain were clearly going after OH voters last night, each taking his own tack.
John Boehner's voting record

[Yawper]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 12:57pm

"I don't like any version of the bailout plan on the table but it simply has to happen. Without it, things will become a lot worst."

Not for everybody. Actually not for a lot of people where I am because many already have shot credit or never use credit. Credit is a luxury for those who have money to start with.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:01pm

I mentioned this last night - I think that on the visuals, Obama won.

Listening on the radio, it seemed like a draw, but when I go home ans saw the body language, Obama seemed much more confident, and secure, and less angry.

I also think that Obama's willingness to point out similarities and agreements is not a bad thing - and those independents and moderates tired of the tone in Washington will think the Republicans ridiculing him for demonstrating consensus should be careful.

McCain was supposed to win foreign policy, hands down. His failure to do so effectively makes this a win for Obama. For most, he passed the CIC test, and people probably would much rather have Obama over for a drink than McCain. Right now, we don't want an attack dog, we want a St. Bernard - someone to help lead us out of our current mess - that is Obama, and not McCain.

The real loser here is Sarah Palin, because she will not be able to demonstrate the knowledge or background of Biden, and, unless she has a Vulcan mind meld before Thursday, will further call into question here readiness for office.

[misschung]

Posted: 9/27/08 at 1:11pm

McCain is a loose canon. I think Obama actually got in McCain's face a lot last night - much more than McCain did to him. McCain wouldn't even make eye contact with the guy. I do, however, agree with the CNN panel that Obama is too forgiving with McCain - "Senator McCain is absolutely right that x, y, z..." He did that after almost every response last night, and it's not going to work in his favor.

And how much is McCain worth exactly? With all that money, he can't fix the grill?