The Official Raúl E. Esparza "Spread the Love" Thread- Page 308

[greatdct]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 10:32pm

Aww, great picture! He looks fantastic! Was he in a good mood? Towards the end of my trip he seemed to be very sad.

Too bad we didn't get to meet! Maybe someday!


It's always hard when a friendship dies. And I think it's perfectly natural to want to do what you can to fix it and get it back to where it used to be. I don't think that can always happen, though. Maybe with time and a lot of effort from both sides.

I don't know. I've been through situations like this before. It's a shame that relationships have to change.

[Alix7272]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 10:33pm

I don't think that the hurt is part of a greater good and that when it's that deep and real, it can be classified as good. Appreciate it in the sense that you can live with it in a sense. This idea came from this incredible book I read by an incredible and giving guy named Scott Fried. I'll try to find a better quote in the book to explain it.

I think many of my relationships are weaker because I haven't said anything for fear of hurting the other person of for fear of what it might do to our relationship in the long run. However, in the long run, I only felt cheated and never knew if it was intentional, having not confronted the person, and they didn't know how I felt. Of course, you have to pick and choose which things to bring up and sometimes it's hard to do that. Personally, I'm not very good at bringing anything up because I tend to avoid confrontation, which is bad.

Elphie, I feel that way too about here. I love being in a place where people understand my love of Rent, Raul, etc.

Updated On: 11/14/05 at 10:33 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 10:38pm

I guess, g, it's hard to know when you should give in, and if there is such a thing as a point at which it's impossible to fix. I think I'd deny the fact that that could exist. It's complicated, often, because one person will be willing to work harder than the other is. I'm the sort of person who, if it's a relationship that's important to me, will do whatever the hell it takes to keep it alive.

I tend to avoid confrontation as well, and sometimes I don't know what to do with it when it's brought to me by the other person. But in hopes of fixing things, I want to deal with it. Sometimes I just am unsure of how to deal with it -- do I fight back, or do I try to be nice about it? Both repsonses each have truth to them, though.

Someone today told me that I was a very gentle person. I suppose, I told him, that I'm the way I am not because I think "oh, people will like me if I'm this way," but because I'm afraid of getting hurt, and figure into the fact that you'll get back what you give, in most cases.

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 10:43pm

"I guess, g, it's hard to know when you should give in, and if there is such a thing as a point at which it's impossible to fix."

maybe this is one of those things you just have to learn. even if it ends badly, you can still look back on nice memories once the wounds have faded.

i'm sorry this happened to you, though, luvtheemcee. you don't seem like the kind of person who deserves it.

[greatdct]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 10:45pm

I think that it only becoms impossible to fix when the person decides that it has become unable to be fixed and gives up. Or if the person decides that fixing the problem isn't worth the pain and struggle that would be involved. In which case, I would say that it's time to give in.

One person can't and shouldn't have to do all of the work to keep a friendship alive. It's not right, and it's not healthy.

Who wants a fairweather friend, anyway?
Updated On: 11/14/05 at 10:45 PM

[Alix7272]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 10:46pm

If both sides want it to work, I don't think it's ever impossible to fix. It's when one person is invested to a different degree or doesn't want to work on it that it becomes impossible.

If both sides - fighting back and understanding - contain truth, then is it possible to express both of them? to acknowledge that you understand where the other person's coming from but also feel that...

My friends tell me that I'm too nice. But it honestly comes from my heart. Like you said, I don't do things because I think that's the nice thing to do, it's because that's how I'm inclined to act, naturally. So I'm kind of the same way.

[ElphieDefiesGravity]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 10:48pm

He seemed to be in a fine mood, g. He stopped for me, which I thought was very nice.

I hate confrontation, mainly because I'll always start to cry, because I will get angry.
Is this an on-going thing, or has it just sort of sprung up in your face all of a sudden?

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 10:48pm

out of theoretical curiousity, what do you think of a situation in which one friend maintains a desire to fix things and the other wavers between the same and wanting it to end?

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 10:55pm

But when something ends badly, isn't it natural just to sort of dwell on that? I know that with things that've happened in the past, it hurts me to think of anything that was fun about the friendship, because then I just think about how painful it was to see it go -- and I can't think about it at all. Having a bad end sort of sours everything that was good about the time together. It's only happened to me once or twice, but they're both situations I've regretted very much because so many great memories will now forever cause me pain.

I'm exactly like that Alix. And it's hard to hear that people think how nice I am is a farce. Sometimes I think it's a fault, because it gets me into bad situations, but that's truly just how my disposition is. I want to be nice to people. I don't know why.

Everything makes me cry, Elphie.

Updated On: 11/14/05 at 10:55 PM

[Alix7272]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 10:56pm

Although I haven't encountered a lot of confrontation, the three or four times I have entered an emotional "debate," I have started or almost started crying, which surprised me.

If someone waivers, I guess it is up to them to decide if they're committed or not and to then proceed from there. Otherwise, it's not fair to either side.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 10:59pm

I think if one side is wavering, more lies in the hands of the person who doesn't. Because if someone is being wishy-washy, and one is very decided in what they want to do, it's just a fact of not being able to make a decision. And so then, if the decided person wants to let it go, they hang on that side of the wishy-washiness, or vice versa, if that makes sense. Maybe it's something of an exploitation of feelings and sway-able opinions, but so goes the politics of friendship.

[greatdct]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:02pm

It is natural to dwell on the bad times. But I also think that hardships either make you want to try really hard to bring back the good times or make you shy away to avoid any more pain. If both peopl are feeling differently then that can make it really difficult.

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:03pm

it is true that the solid half of the relationship can pull things one way or the other, but the feelings of the flip-flopper don't change, do they?

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:09pm

Being that they're the flip-flopper, by definition, they CONSTANTLY change. They may not change from one day into the next, but the problem itself IS that their feelings change.

I've shied away in the past, to avoid further pain and confrontation, and I've let things get away from me. So now my nature has changed, and I'll want to get good things to come back. I regret the way I used to handle things, and more actively chase after what could otherwise get away.

Updated On: 11/14/05 at 11:09 PM

[Alix7272]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:09pm

Because the person is flip-flopping, the other person can certainly influence which way they flip. (hehe )

That's why I think they need to step back and decide what they want in order to be fair to both sides.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:11pm

What if what they want today is very clearly a product of circumstance, and what they wanted yesterday, or what they may want again tomorrow is the polar opposite? That's a big decision to make so rashly on a whim. It's difficult to me to percieve making such an ultimate, impactful decision based on what you feel, when that's so prone to changing, simply because you're so set on something right now that you think you won't change your mind.

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:13pm

how can that person know what they want if not given the chance to test the choices?

[Alix7272]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:17pm

Well, the deciding part is obviously a huge issue and one that needs to be thought about and considered on different days. But it's still one that needs to be made at some point.

While you don't want to toy with the emotions of the person who wants to continue the relationship, maybe the fact that the person can't decide means that although it's tough right now, they need the relationship but are afraid of doing the work, or don't always recognize it's worth to their life. Therefore, maybe they should decide to commit to it for a while and if after that, they know they want out, that would be brought up. If that ends up being the end result, the "stable" person will be hurt but will have also known that they gave it a try. On the other hand, the flip flopper may know they want to leave but can't let go for some reason, maybe because they are afraid of hurting the other person, since they still care about him/her. So then you come back to the issue of deciding before proceeding.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:19pm

I suppose it depends on how this "test" is proposed. If it seems final, that can be hurtful to the other person.

But then again, if the person testing is prone to change heart so easily, I don't know that something like that would be of help. I mean, if you shut the person out when you're angry, of course you'd think you can live without them. Then because they can change so easily, they'll tell themselves that this is okay, and force the change. Just like I tell myself it's a flaw to be so stable in my amiable nature, I think that not having stability of feeing, and the ability to forcibly change how you feel is a flaw, too. I think what I mean is that if feelings are so easily changable, reaching a decision based on seeing how you feel in an imposed situation is just complicating the issue.

Updated On: 11/14/05 at 11:19 PM

[Alix7272]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:27pm

This is true. This reminds me of my college search and deciding where to apply early. When it comes to some things, especially big decisions, I can definately be a big flip-flopper - seeing the good in both, choosing one but never really deciding to my satisfaction, then convincing myself I made the right choice half the time while doubting my choice the other half. It's hard and in the end, you don't know until you're there whether it's deciding between camps or colleges or what to do with the second half of your senior year - oy. I thinks that's true of relationships too though. As they say, hindsight is always 20/20 and so after all the careful consideration, you just have to make that leap of faith and go for it, hoping for the best.

Updated On: 11/14/05 at 11:27 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:28pm

And in a way, it's all a gamble...

[PoisonedRose]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:34pm

and some of us have weighted dice.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:35pm

EVERYONE has weighted dice. They're just each filled with different baggage. No one's baggage is more substantial or important.

Updated On: 11/14/05 at 11:35 PM

[Alix7272]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:36pm

It very much is. But that's what keeps us invested I suppose.

And now, I must take advantage of this opportunity to go to sleep before 12 because I'll be mad at myself if I don't, as much as I want to stay up. I was like "5 more minutes" an hour and a half ago! I hope everything works out for the best for you in the end, whatever that may end up being.

Good night!

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/14/05 at 11:37pm

Good night, and thanks!