The Official Raúl E. Esparza "Spread the Love" Thread, Part 3- Page 68

[misschung]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 12:41am

Am I the only one who has never heard of datalounge?

I had a feeling he would be there today, because I decided NOT to go! kate, that's insane. You must have been so surprised! In a good way, of course

[Sondheim Geek]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 12:43am

AHH! That's amazing, Kate! That's something I pretty much only dream about... or when I walk into someone on the street, I always end up thinking "oh crap, that's probably ____". Last year, I thought 100% that I had walked straight into Stephen Sondheim, but then I realized it was a hobo.

What is the MATTER with me?

I agree, Em. Stupidity (with a small side of gossip) is basically... my existence, but there's a line between being out of control and understanding what you're actually saying.

None the less, it's a difficult place with a broadway-type message board. Because the community is so small, and because almost everyone here actually knows someone/is involved with some aspect of the business... it's difficult. This is not Hollywood. There's no opportunity for tabloid-esque stuff.


EDIT FOR..EDITNESS - Raul. As the Chaperone.

Updated On: 7/15/07 at 12:43 AM

[Katecab99]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 12:47am

i had never heard of it either...but i briefly looked at it the other day, and WOW - there are some really strong opinions about him over there.

misschung - suprised doesn't even begin to cover it, hence the alleged sputterting.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:02am

Hee, I don't know what I would have done if I just literally crashed into him. Taye Diggs and I collided once, and it was... so awkward. But he was cool about it. I was like "OH MY GOD I AM SO SORRY." Heh. As it happens, I apparently don't do composure.

I honestly just don't get why you wouldn't take the cue given in noticing that that stuff seems to be missing from here. I wouldn't call what was said "out of control," per se, but just... unnecessary and inappropriate in this venue. And again, I'm far from one of those "WE CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT HIS WORK" people, but there's a line.

I think what's... sticky about theater fandom is that because the community is very small, there's a lot of overlap. Hollywood fame and film are so wide-reaching that there's tremendous distance most of the time. But with the theater community, like you said, it's really common to be involved on multiple levels. Lots of fans also work in the industry and all that. A lot of us are only a few degrees of separation from the artists we all post about, which makes tabloid material more tenuous than it would be in Hollywood.

Updated On: 7/15/07 at 01:02 AM

[Katecab99]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:10am

amen to all that, em.

it's a very, VERY small world.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:13am

Heh, yeah, I had a striking realization of just how small when one of my favorite performers actually became my friend. Things like that kind of spin your world on its head a little bit.

[Craww]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:17am

which makes tabloid material more tenuous than it would be in Hollywood

Also, more likely to be true.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:24am

That as well. And, thus, of course, not as easily passed off as "harmless" gossip -- but that's another (subjective) story.
ETA: Just to clarify, I don't want it to look like I'm trying to protect him and deny this, or whatever. I'm certainly not the kind of person who refuses to believe that rumors often has some roots in truth and all that, but just the opposite. I just don't think we should be talking about it here, is all.

Updated On: 7/15/07 at 01:24 AM

[Sondheim Geek]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:31am

Whether we realize it or not, everyone takes Hollywood celebrity gossip with a grain of salt. If you talk about Lindsay Lohan or Paris Hilton, it’s too far away to affect you. On BWW and ATC, there isn’t that sense of security and “I can say whatever the f*ck I want about ___ because they’re not real people, they’re actors”.

Here, if whoever you’re talking about isn’t gonna read it, it’s going to be someone who knows them. It’s scary, but it creates respect.

Well, at least if you don't want to look like a total dickwad.

[Craww]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:34am

Datalounge Raul Esparza and BWW Love Thread Raul Esparza are two completely different people. Seeing as how I don't think either of them are correct, I don't think it hurts too much for them to bleed together a little bit.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:45am

Well, while I do agree with the first half, and think it's a fair enough point that every story has three sides, that the truth lies somewhere in the middle, I disagree with the conclusion, for a complicated list of reasons.

Like I said, I don't really have a problem with the tidbit in question. Whatever. BUT, to me, it's an issue of how far you go once the worms escape the can. And maybe I'm being a little bit too moderately obstinate, I'll concede that, but I have to admit that it would bother me a little bit if discussion topic ventured into legitimately unfair territory for public viewing, you know?

That took me way too long to post. I'm too tired to string a sentence together, apparently.

PS, I saw Lindsay Lohan on Martha, and it was so. beyond. awkward.

[Katecab99]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:46am

i just wonder when people write really awful things - true or not - about people's personal lives on public forums, do they ever think about all of the other associated people that they insult or hurt? gossip is one thing, but downright nastiness is quite another.

but anyway, yay for bww and it's "love threads"! they may get a little crazy, but (almost) always in a good way








Updated On: 7/15/07 at 01:46 AM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:51am

One of the most fascinating things about a forum like Datalounge is that I think part of what makes it work is that there's significantly lessened guilt with total anonymity.

[Craww]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 1:57am

I disagree with the conclusion, for a complicated list of reasons.

I think the devotion on these love threads is sweet and naive and slavish enough to self edit the really good stuff out anyway. It's not like a gateway drug situation where you give these kids one puff of gossip and they're going to be shooting it into their veins with fiendish abandon.

We're obviously coming at it from different perspectives. I don't think anyone here needs to be checked on what's unfair for public viewing, because maybe the biggest difference between BWW posters and Datalounge posters are that they're actually his fans.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 2:09am

I don't know, I disagree. Why are people so attracted to gossip in the first place? Once you start, it's hard to stop.

I added into one of my previous posts that my opinion on this doesn't by any means come from a perspective of thinking this man can do no wrong, or denying that anything on a gossip site could possibly be true. I leave that kind of contention to the Jonathan Groff fangirls, thank you very much. This all, of course, gets into the messy territory of "see, but you don't know me," an excuse that we can't play nearly as often as we'd like. I will say, though, without going into too much detail, that I'm not coming from a simple perspective of sweet naivete that purports the idea that he's a human block of sugar, either. It's a conversation better had in PM territory.

[Craww]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 2:17am

I understand that.

I'm really no more attracted to gossip than I am turned off by the occasional weird, prohibitive, mysterious vibe I get on BWW in regards to Raul Esparza. To be perfectly honest...I don't even read Datalounge, I can't navigate it without my brain exploding.

We're not Raul's mommies. We can't protect him from himself, or from the bitter spurned lovers and jealous peers. So we shouldn't discuss the details of that kind of thing here, I agree. It's pretty base for a general and (on this thread) positive forum. But it will color things, and maybe it's best to let a discussion play itself out naturally before deciding it needs to be policed.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 2:25am

I freely admit -- and most of you ladies know this -- that I'm a gossip junkie. (I mean, I read Datalounge.) I'm not proud of that, but in a way, it's sort of natural. Just in the way that what we read or pick up elsewhere does, yes, color conversation -- it happens often. I don't police it; I participate in it. I think that's totally fine -- I'm hardly that straight-edged, and I'd be a hypocrite to start saying it's bad. But there's a big difference between innuendo coloring jokes and straight-up asking for an answer, you know?

Updated On: 7/15/07 at 02:25 AM

[Craww]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 2:27am

Someone should make a macro that says GO READ DATALOUNGE, PERVERT for whenever one of those questions is brought up. Simple, amusing.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 2:32am

I bet that dude who posts graphics everywhere on the main board has one -- he seems to have one for every other occasion.

Updated On: 7/15/07 at 02:32 AM

[Chrysanthemum62001]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 3:46am

I don't know what Datalounge is, though I suspect it has speculations about his personal life. He is entitled to his privacy but at the same time, we adore him, so we are curious. I think this site is different from some gossip site because the Raul thread is meant to unite fans of his and bring them together (while giving them an outlet to gush and gloat). When I first fell madly in love with the performer Raul Esparza, it drove me mad because people around me had absolutely no idea who he was, nor did they care. I actually joined BWW to talk about Raul, just because my handfull of friends back home were exhausted with me talking about him.

Sure there are moments we gossip, we are human. And he is human too. To say he doesn't do the same would be expecting too much from him. I do believe in instant karma, and what goes around does come around. I should hope he's smart enough not to gossip about people in the business, but it does happen. Michael Riedel makes a living from it. Sure people will write falsehoods about Raul and gossip about him. And if he reads them, they will hurt. So for that matter, I hope he stays far away from anything that might hurt him. And yet, the person in me who loves seeing him channel his pain onstage disagrees and says everything happens for a reason. It also makes me question if he would still be where he is if he hadn't experienced the hardships that he did. The actor inside of me says it all makes for good theatre. The humane part of me says it can make life a b*tch.

And that's just my 4 am rambling...


On to Patti...does anyone find it funny that Bank of America was the big sponsor for Gypsy even though Patti had that long bit on her site about the morons that Bank of America be? I haven't been able to get that off my mind...

[Sondheim Geek]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 9:34am

I had a giant ramble going on, but for clarification reasons, I'm going to summarize.

Because we are his fans, and because we're human beings who have curiosity, it would be entirely bizarre if we didn't go on datalounge after this. It makes sense that we want to read it, but it doesn't make it correct.

If I can make a broad statement, we don't want to be a gossip site. The fact that we sometimes cross over a bit... well, it's only natural...

That doesn't make it good.

[MotorTink]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 9:48am

See this is why I love you people. You can have an intellectual debate without it turning into a pissing match! You all have raised great points.

To me, it all comes down to common sense. Plain and simple. The "regulars" around here know what is general knowledge to post publicly, or what should just be PM'd to someone to chat about. Of course you can post in publicly, the BWW police aren't going to arrest you, but it is a question of tact.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 10:40am

I missed a lot! That seems to happen a lot lately, with the falling asleep at 11:00 and all.

This is such an interesting debate. In general, I think I agree that as far as tact goes, certain topics are best left off the boards (and really, it's totally not that hard to find out if you really want to know -- just PM someone who seems to be "in the know"). But the idea of policing threads is really unattractive to me, and I do think it's a little on the overzealous fan side that we feel compelled to protect his reputation from sometimes-false-but-often-true speculation. I mean, it is a Love Thread, so I guess it almost comes with the territory, but I have no problem seeing how that would come off as (and probably is) slavish and creepy adoration. I personally know people who have been so turned off upon finding out about his personal life as to cease to be fans, and while it's more fair for them to have the full picture and they undoubtedly couldn't have been huge fans anyway, the irrational fan part of you wants people to like him. That doesn't justify trying to control the flow of information (which, really, is a pretentious concept in the first place), but I think that's what's behind it.

And yet, the person in me who loves seeing him channel his pain onstage disagrees and says everything happens for a reason. It also makes me question if he would still be where he is if he hadn't experienced the hardships that he did. The actor inside of me says it all makes for good theatre. The humane part of me says it can make life a b*tch.

Totally. I think this is part of why all the gossip attracts me when it usually doesn't as much. I'm a self-admitted angst whore, and Raul Esparza is nothing if not angsty (and I use that word without the intention of minimizing his troubles). Which I definitely agree informs his performances and is part of what makes him so fascinating to watch. I pity him for it (even that which is self-inflicted), but I'm not sure I'd want it any differently. Annnddd now I sound like a horrible person. Although I'm sure by now he's had issues enough to inform a lifetime of performances, so maybe he needs a break.

[MotorTink]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 10:45am

self-admitted angst whore

haha, love it!

[humbugfoto]

Posted: 7/15/07 at 10:53am

What MotorTink said. Absolutely!!

I just want to add that in addition to common sense, there’s also respect and responsibility. Everybody around here has shown tremendous respect towards Raúl (something the Dataloungers seem to take a perverse pride in shredding) and the willingness, by and large, to take responsibility for your own actions in the form of self-editing. I don’t think that’s censorship or “policing” – it comes back to what MotorTink said – it’s simple common sense.

(Dang – serves me right for going to sleep – I miss all the good stuff!)