"This is America? This is an outrage."- Page 10

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 4:02pm

I've been repeating the Maureen Dowd question over and over. "Who are we if we can't take care of our own?"

A leaderless, rudderless mass of selfish people?

Nah, so many people I know work in the non-profit sector and work daily to make the world a better place.

But overall, in spite of the exceptions, maybe?

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 4:32pm

I've been to New Orleans many times, and have been in many different parts of the city. (Now I know why Blanche was so upset Stella lived in Elysian Fields) A huge segement of the population is still very much mired in a different time. Don't forget just a few months ago there were still areas of Louisianna that didn't have PHONE SERVICE. This is a rural people that happen to live in a major city.

Even here in NYC!

Next time you're in a predominantly black or latino neighborhood, look around. You'll find more than your fair share of check-cashing places and liquor stores, the public areas are not as well-maintained, and the subway stops are filthy.

It's very hard for poor people to get ahead when systems are in place that make it very difficult to open bank accounts, develop a credit history and live in a clean safe environment. Our draconian drug laws only compund the problem--but we gotta keep those prisons full right?

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 4:35pm

I just got back from delivering 40 cases of water to Reunion Arena here in Dallas and the place is overwhelmed with so many of Katrina's survivors, and the only help they are getting is from local authorities and citizens (a lot of them) who are bringing them food, water and ohter necessities of life.

It doesn't look like the federal or even state governemnt is helping at all in taking care of the as many as 75,000-100,000 victims expected in Dallas in the next few days.

It makes no sense.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 4:42pm

StickToPriest:

First: thank you, thank you, thank you.

Second: Are you willing to take any money via PayPal to help purchase more supplies and/or get money directly to those who need it? I have been giving money to organizations, including Second Harvest, but if you intend to go back for a second trip, I would like to help.

Third: A link for SecondHarvest: http://www.secondharvest.org/

Deb.
Updated On: 9/3/05 at 04:42 PM

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 4:43pm

Thanks Priest, it's nice to see someone who knows what he's talking about. You did a very nice thing.

[Plum]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 4:50pm

lildogs- I've stated my reasons for being uncomfortable (not outraged, not sickened) by the use of the word "refugee" in this situation. Historically, refugees are a class of emigrant everybody pities and almost nobody takes responsibility for. Think Evian conference. Thankfully, that hasn't really been the situation this time around because these people are Americans in America, poor and black or not.

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:01pm

You have a very personal feeling about the term "refugee"--don't get it, but that's for William Safire to argue, not me. Peace, Plum.

[Plum]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:05pm

Have I been writing in Esperanto without realizing it? Dear lord.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:07pm

A relative in CT just told me that there are announcements that the area armories will be taking donations for Katrina survivors. But that they are all closed for the long holiday weekend, so if people want to donate, COME TUESDAY.

As Charlie Brown said, "Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!"

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:08pm

Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary:

Refugee: one that flees for safety; esp: one who flees to a foreign country or power to escape danger or persecution.

Evacuee: an evacuated person.

I think these people are evacuees. Not refugees. But just my opinion.

But then again, Bush called the Southeast "that part of the world" on Friday, so maybe to him these are not part of his America.

[pab]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:10pm

"At the end of an unforgettable week, one broadcaster on Friday bitterly encapsulated the sense of burning shame and anger that many American citizens are feeling.

Flood victims were left virtually to their own devices for days

The only difference between the chaos of New Orleans and a Third World disaster operation, he said, was that a foreign dictator would have responded better."
BBC

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:11pm

Check your dictionaries again kids....there's more than one definition to "refugee"

I'm not sure how many definitions it has in Esperanto, Plum.

[Plum]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:13pm

The South is his base; if that's not his America, what is? And thank you for not just assuming I'm being irrational about the semantics of this whole thing.

Namo, I'm also frustrated as hell that this is the semester I chose to do foreign study. Writing a check just doesn't seem like enough.

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:17pm

Are you out of the country Plum? Or is foreign study a discipline?

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:19pm

There were two provided if you look.

Here are some more:

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.

refugee

SYLLABICATION: ref·u·gee
PRONUNCIATION: rfy-j
NOUN: One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.
ETYMOLOGY: French réfugié, from past participle of réfugier, to take refuge, from Old French, from refuge, refuge. See refuge.


Marian Webster Online Dictionary:
Main Entry: ref·u·gee
Pronunciation: "re-fyu-'jE, 're-fyu-"
Function: noun
Etymology: French réfugié, past participle of (se) réfugier to take refuge, from Latin refugium
: one that flees; especially : a person who flees to a foreign country or power to escape danger or persecution


Cambridge Online Dictionary:

refugee noun [C]
a person who has escaped from their own country for political, religious or economic reasons or because of a war:
Thousands of refugees fled across the border.


EDIT: I will grant you though that the look of desparation in some of these peoples eyes is simlar to the images that have come out of many refugee camps. Updated On: 9/3/05 at 05:19 PM

[Plum]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:20pm

Leaving the country soon. Of course, they're having a school-wide meeting to decide on ways to help while I'm sitting and packing. Gah. But that's off-topic.

ETA- Glory Hallelujah, the dictionary backs me up. Good to know I'm not the world's worst English major after all.
Updated On: 9/3/05 at 05:20 PM

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:29pm

I think it is time for Bush and Rumsfeld to make a surprise visit to the Green Zone in the United States of Iraq to make sure all are safe.

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:30pm

refugee

n : an exile who flees for safety


Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

There! It doesn't make you a bad English major, but since you took a little license (nobody pities them nobody takes responsibility--not an exact quote, but you remember) and laid some emotional weight on the word, others have morphed it to apply to the hurricane victims. These people are not just fleeing a hazardous weather area, they are leaving a war zone with martial law declared in many parts of the state.

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:38pm

the refugee subtext threading its way throughout this thread has certainly tangled itself up a bit so I'm not clear who is for the use of the word and who isn't.

Either way, here's a piece of information that one side won't like to hear, and the other will believe it confirms and supports their position.

I spoke to my nephew a few minutes ago. He lives in the panhandle of Florida. In reply to my inquiry of how thing were going there he answered, "they're bringing in the refugees." [italics mine.]






Updated On: 9/3/05 at 05:38 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 5:54pm

Check the definition of exile:

WordNet Search - 2.1

Noun
S: (n) exile, expatriate (voluntarily absent from home or country)
S: (n) exile, deportee (expelled from home or country by authority)
S: (n) exile, deportation, expatriation, transportation (the act of expelling a person from their native land) "men in exile dream of hope"; "his deportation to a penal colony"; "the expatriation of wealthy farmers"; "the sentence was one of transportation for life"
Verb

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 6:01pm

Just because people are using a word doesn't mean it is correct to use it.

I think the word can be used, but if we are going to have a 70 page semantics fight, I believe that it is not the precisely accurate word for this as these people are not fleeing America because of religious or political persecution.

Plum stated her opinion on the matter, why ARE some of you (who I love and adore) beating this into the ground?

[Plum]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 6:01pm

you took a little license...and laid some emotional weight on the word

I didn't make up that word's emotional connotations. They were already there; I pointed them out.

These people are not just fleeing a hazardous weather area, they are leaving a war zone with martial law declared in many parts of the state.

Now who's taking emotional license? Martial law has not been declared anywhere on the Gulf Coast; it has, in fact, been a virtual impossibility since the Civil War. And for the sake of people who actually live in war zones, kindly don't compare some snipers taking potshots as National Guardsmen to guerillas.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 6:08pm

Not to interrupt the vocabulary lesson, but this article both pleased and infuriated me.
300 troops with kin in Katrina zone sent home

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 6:23pm

She has an editorial in tomorrows NYTimes on the devastation in NO:

September 4, 2005
Do You Know What It Means to Lose New Orleans?
By ANNE RICE


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/opinion/04rice.html?ei=5090&en=ce2f33f8719dba9c&ex=1283486400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print


And, for the record, she uses the term "refugee". I don't know who is right on the term at this point. I understand both sides on this. Just help them: that is all I care about.
Updated On: 9/3/05 at 06:23 PM

[Plum]

Posted: 9/3/05 at 6:27pm

MustnotlaughatmentionofAnneRice...