Posted: 6/1/15 at 12:35am
yeah, the bug up my ass is god loving certain ppl, but doesn't give a crap about the 9,000,000 children it lets die a year, if one says there is a such a thing.
also, obstruction of women's and gay rights and right to death and the 50 million ways it sticks bugs up everyone's ass.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 2:19am
I'm a bit lost here but a good read and a slight side step I think , Jane, [and good for you if whatever happened was a positive result of your 'intervention'].
I did all the church thing till I was 19 [Methodist] and purely [for me] a social event--was bored with the preaching and not for once believed the stories told. I have been near death through heart disease, narrowly avoided the tsuami disaster, molested by a member of the cloth and my first client for testicle waxing was a priest.
Where am I going with all this--God only knows--but I do now, thank you.
I was very close to my Grandmother, she was living with my family but I was away travelling with a show. Was on a bus in the middle of nowhere and I started to cry [sobbing actually]. Arriving at the next town I went straight to the post office to see if I had a telegram[shows how old I am] and there it was--my Nan died the time I started to cry.
How, when. where or why ?? Didn't make me convert but sure makes me feel happy that my Nan and I had this invisible connection and she was able to tell me when she went.
I want to be there when my Mother goes as I have told her that I want to be holding her hand when she does [she doesn't believe either--her words 'a load of rubbish'.
So Jane--thank you for letting me contribute a little story from one who has no beliefs except to believe it is important to make a contribution without putting any sort of label on yourself.
Whenever I do something to help my Mum[96] she always says--'another star in your crown,Darling'.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 5:49am
Jane2: But who or what went into my brain and erased things that I lived my whole life with, and added different things?
bethnor: we will never be able to disprove deism in our lifetimes.
Actually, if there's a supernatural being that can erase and put things in our minds, then (in principle) we can make a testable prediction: we should be able to find neurological events in our brains that have no physical cause. Neurons should be firing without anything causing them to fire, like little books flying off shelves for no reason. I think any conception of a supernatural entity capable of affecting our universe would be subject to this kind of inquiry.
As I read this, it sounds flip, but I don't mean it to be. I don't believe in any divine being, but it's a big universe, and I don't think it's silly to look for signs of one.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 8:00am
Bethnor you need a hug.
Sweeet lips-thank you for your story.
kdogg, you don't sound flip to me, thanks.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 8:52am
I feel I have to reiterate my initial question, lest another person totally misinterprets it.
I wanted to know if any atheists or agnostics changed their thinking after experiencing an unexplainable event. That's it - simple. yes or no.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 9:00am
Can't help you Jane, I've never experienced an unexplainable event.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 9:56am
Jane. This Op-Ed about secular humanism was in yesterday's New York Times. I immediately thought of your posts. Feel free to read on if you're interested...
Posted: 6/1/15 at 10:03am
I started reading it, and so far it is VERY interesting to me. I have to leave right now but I'm going to finish it when I get back later. Thanks Liza's!
Posted: 6/1/15 at 10:54am
It might in fact be exactly what you're searching for, Jane. I know several who actively partake in secular humanism. It strikes a fair balance between atheism and organized religion.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 10:55am
I finished the article in the Drs waiting room. In a way, those secular humanism meetings are a religion themselves, which is fine but for people who don't want to belong to a religion, well...
this is just like people who consider themselves "hipsters" who all seem to dress alike and have the same tastes. What's ironic about that is that the basic definition of hipster is one who feels "outside of accepted society and who does not go along with trends. A true individualist. (This is what I identify with, btw.)
Posted: 6/1/15 at 10:55am
I'm a firm non-believer -- for many of the reasons that Bethnor mentions....just not in the same manner.
To ME, the believe in god all too often absolves one of making decisions, AND taking blame or credit. If you "thank god" for a touchdown, an idea, or keeping you off a doomed airplane ride -- what does that mean for those that lose the game, don't cure cancer or DID die in the plane crash. Is god out to get those people?
I'm definitely more the agnostic, doubt the existence -- but I am very ANTI-organized religion. If everything I've been taught about a higher being is true: all s/he cares about is that I'm a good person. The whole ten commandments type thing. If people were inherently good, we wouldn't even need that.
I am fully responsible for every choice I make: good and bad even if I don't know how I came to that decision. Why is my favorite color red? I dunno....doesn't mean a higher being made it so.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 10:58am
If people were inherently good, we wouldn't even need that.
Right. But that's not what most organized religions, including Christianity, teach. A pillar of Christianity is, in fact, that we are inherently evil and born into sin.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 11:00am
I *think* it's a little more nuanced than that, but unfortunately fundamentalist Christians have perverted the metaphors of the Christian myths into stories that are supposed to be literally true.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 11:16am
Fair enough, Namo. I'm not a scholar or expert in the field.
Carlos - I know from past postings that you are quite spiritual. Do you practice, or identify with, any sort of religion? I think identifying with or following a certain denomination without the premise of "organized religion" is possible.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 11:23am
I am fully responsible for every choice I make: good and bad even if I don't know how I came to that decision. Why is my favorite color red? I dunno....doesn't mean a higher being made it so.
That's incredibly reductive. I am not a practicing Christian, but I am spiritual and believe in some kind of higher divine power. Even I know that most Christians fully support the idea of free will; there is no suggestion that God is dictating your choices in life. You always have free will. Read up on theological free will and determinism.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 11:38am
"Fair enough, Namo. I'm not a scholar or expert in the field.
Carlos - I know from past postings that you are quite spiritual. Do you practice, or identify with, any sort of religion? I think identifying with or following a certain denomination without the premise of "organized religion" is possible. "
Yes Liza. I am spiritual. I was baptized Catholic but I am in no way, shape or form a practicing Catholic. I have my relationship with my Creator, I do believe in Jesus but I also relate to Buddhist teachings. I meditate every day and I've done my share of retreats. I just consider myself a very spiritual person.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 11:58am
"To ME, the believe in god all too often absolves one of making decisions, AND taking blame or credit. If you "thank god" for a touchdown, an idea, or keeping you off a doomed airplane ride -- what does that mean for those that lose the game, don't cure cancer or DID die in the plane crash. Is god out to get to get those people?"
I never said whether the change in me was good or bad, so Bethnnor's charge against me saying I received love from God and what did I do to deserve it while 9 million children are starving is not applicable and frankly, quite insulting. Just wanted to clear that up.
I agree, Drama, with " how is there a god who lets all the bad things happen?" I'm not sure what people of faith say about that. Maybe they say that's God's will. Who knows?
I have to further explain once again. What I'm wondering about as far as the change in me, is not specifically the GOD we hear about, but SOMETHING out there that can make these changes. And I do believe that something beyond my own free will was at work.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 12:04pm
Maybe they say that's God's will. Who knows?
Some do. Others say it's because of human sin. Anyone who claims to have the answers is full of it.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 12:04pm
I *think* it's a little more nuanced than that, but unfortunately fundamentalist Christians have perverted the metaphors of the Christian myths into stories that are supposed to be literally true.
Is it more nuanced than that, though? Were you taught original sin was a metaphor?
Posted: 6/1/15 at 12:14pm
As a child raised in the Catholic tradition I wasn't told it was a story that was meant to illustrate that every human being is flawed and imperfect. I was told that as I got older though, because the Catholics never believed the fundamental truth of every single word in the bible. Luckily I got out of all that before the backlash against Vatican II really solidified in the '80s, paralleling the rise in Christian fundamentalism in the mainstream of US culture and politics (Thanks, Jimmy Carter!).
Posted: 6/1/15 at 12:17pm
Your Catholic experience growing up sounds so different from mine. I mean, we were taught that Genesis and whatnot were just stories, but also that if you died with the stain of original sin on your soul (or any unconfessed sin) that you were headed to hell.
Posted: 6/1/15 at 12:18pm
I don't think all dioceses were on the same page. Kinda like the states rights crap of today!
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