(Vanessa Williams and) All of Broadway Says Goodbye to Rosie

I wish she would have just stayed away.

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I loved her talk show. I was in the audience about four different times. So much fun to be there. I think I still have this episode on tape somewhere.

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Paging Phyllis.

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After her stance on Prop 8, she is dead to me. Dead.

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Did she actually say that? I thought the discussion was why she didn't donate money to it's defeat. That's not the same thing.

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Crazy nostalgia. Most of those shows are gone now. I see Aida, Millie, Oklahoma, Beauty and the Beast, 42nd Street, Contact, Rent... and then shows that I never thought would still be open Chicago, Lion King, Mamma Mia... crazy.

Some people you forgive, because they're crazy, like your relatives.

I forgive Rosie, Bette and Donna Summer.

And I forgive Vanessa Williams for being so mean to Daniel.

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For what it's worth, I miss her on THE VIEW, too. It was unmissable. I liked her Golde in FIDDLER. I just respond to her, and must support Pal Joey's sentiments.

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but considering the fights are more frequent and more personal these days [and I'm only going by the clips I've seen since I no longer watch]

I would disagree. They may fight more, but no one made things more personal than Rosie. I cite her last appearance on the show as example number 1.

I liked her and her old show a lot, but I thought her time on The View made her into as big of a blustering gasbag as the right-wing counterparts she'd decry.

And I posted in this thread because I was paged.

Bette Midler on Larry King in 2003.

KING: Should they be allowed to marry?

MIDLER: Should gay people be allowed to marry? That's a really good question. I think -- I'm a really big believer in all the civil rights that everyone else has. I believe in gay people sharing the civil rights. I believe that they're entitled to them. I believe they're entitled to the insurances. I believe they're entitled to all those things...

KING: Visits in the hospital, make decisions...

MIDLER: All that stuff, yes. As far as marriage is concerned, I come from a -- you know, doesn't seem to be hurting anybody. You know, I'm of two minds. On the one hand, I'm a married woman. You know, I mean, I've -- I took vows. I took civil vows, though. I did not take religious vows. And so I...

KING: By choice?

MIDLER: Well, yes, by choice. So I -- you know, and when it comes to religion, I don't really know what to say because I'm -- I'm in my tribe, and I try to be a good Jew, but on the other hand, I don't know what the -- how people feel. My feeling is, Well, who's it really going to hurt? But then, if you're a religious person, you're get all knocked out because of the things that...

KING: By the way, I saw you in "Fiddler."

MIDLER: You did?

KING: (SINGING) Matchmaker, matchmaker...

MIDLER: Oh, my God!

KING: ... make me a match...

MIDLER: So Larry, I guess I didn't do so good on that last question, huh? (LAUGHTER)

KING: No!

MIDLER: Well, I'll tell you something. I...

KING: I understand. It's a dilemma to you.

MIDLER: It's a real dilemma, but I think it's a dilemma to a lot of people. I don't think it really hurts anybody. I think -- I think -- to tell you the truth, my -- my -- many, many, many of the homosexual men that I know -- I can't speak for the women because -- the way I feel -- the women, they can look at each other from across a crowded room, and suddenly, they're mates for life. You know, they -- you know, they'll go out for a Coke, and they'll just be, you know, move in, and that'll be the end of it. But gay men, they like to -- you know, they like to move around. They like to have -- you know, they're -- that's part of it. That's part of the fun of being a gay man. So if they're married, does that mean they're not going to cheat, they're only going to be with one...

KING: Well, that's what they say, they want to make the commitment.

MIDLER: They want to make the commitment...

KING: Why shouldn't society let them make the commitment?

MIDLER: Well, it's interesting.

KING: That's what they're saying.

MIDLER: It's very interesting. I'm really wondering how -- what that commitment is going to be about.

I watched every episode of the View during her tenure and I found her reasonably restrained in dealing with EH. EH was giving interviews to everyone who would listen about how she was friends with Rosie and they all got along. Yet she wouldn't take Fox News to task for their blatantly untrue remarks about Rosie and Joy Behar. Rosie had every right to be angry. I was angry for her. Rosie was cast as the mean, angry lesbian who bullied poor, helpless, blonde Elisabeth.

I don't understand Rosie's stance on Prop 8. Was she saying her marriage was statement enough? It was a bit of a guessing game.

But the thing is, Bette was totally right about the generation currently in their mid-40s and above, which would be the gay men she knows best. There was a time when monogamy and marriage were seen as the assimilationist moves that they are. And now the movement is completely dominated by the assimilationist impulse, and that's fine. But it doesn't mean there weren't plenty of us who never wanted it.

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