Why Do Some Gay Men Want to Out Other Gay Men?- Page 3

[Kringas]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 1:16am

That hurts. You're a vicious gay.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 1:16am

Aw, Kringas, I hope you find someone you want to be partners with.

[MatthewAddison]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 1:17am

Oh, Kringas. Don't get your harness in a ruffle.

[Kringas]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 1:23am

Well, thank you, nom. That's kind of you.

Silly Matthew. It's a chain link harness. Too cold for this weather.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 1:25am

I hear Terry McMillan is shopping for a new hubby, Kringas.

[Kringas]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 1:27am

I hear she's got a mouth on her, though. Mrs. Kringas must not speak vulgarities.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 1:30am

Thanks for all the input, sondheimboy2. Interesting read.

[Jilani]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 2:37am

Calling someone "gay" would only be slander in a state where sodomy is a crime, just as calling them a bankrobber, a cocaine addict or an income-tax cheat would be slanderous.

The U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Lawrence v. Texas (2003) effectively declared any state law criminalizing sodomy (at least between consenting adults) to be unconstitutional, so there are no states where sodomy is a crime anymore.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 9:51am

Yes, Jilani, PalJoey can make pronouncements of law that are not accurate.

"Or maybe they just aren't ready to accept it themselves."

Sorry I missed that comment, Stick to Priest, it's a very good one.

So now the major reasons why guys aren't out we've mentioned are because of work, church, wife, family, or they themeselves just aren't ready to be out.

Sounds like the major reasons of not being out to me.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 9:53am

The point is there's no risk of libel or slander.

There is, however, still risk of invasion of privacy.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 9:58am

Each and every one of those "reasons" ( I prefer the term "excuses") has to do with self loathing and internalized homophobia. Why would you want to belong to a church that teaches you are going to hell for the way you were born? Why would you want to live a lie and continue a lifestyle just because of what other people might think? Self loathing and internalized homophobia. Simple.
I have never met an out person who wishes he had stayed in the closet, no matter what the consequences.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 9:58am

PalJoey, you are incorrect.

[DG]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 10:04am

I would 'out' a gay politician in a heartbeat, if they had a record of voting against gay rights. But that's the only outing scenario I would participate in.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 10:07am

North Carolina Gay and Lesbian Attorneys:

Historically, newspapers and television news programs have been reluctant to say that a person is gay or lesbian, because they were afraid that someone labeled as homosexual could automatically sue for libel or slander. In 1994, however, the North Carolina Court of Appeals, in Donovan v. Fiumara, 114 N.C. App. 524, 442 S.E.2d 572 (1994), made such lawsuits quite difficult to win. The Court recognized that gay men and lesbians have made remarkable progress in recent years overcoming the former stigma attached to homosexuality. Accordingly, the Court decided that someone can sue for being called homosexual only if he or she can prove "special and actual damages" and that such damages will not be presumed as a matter of law.
North Carolina Gay and Lesbian Attorneys

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 10:09am

"Each and every one of those "reasons" ( I prefer the term "excuses") has to do with self loathing and internalized homophobia."

Your point is weighty, Sueleen, but I do think that sometimes people do things out of concern for others, not just themselves. Such as a feeling or belief that they are protecting family members, for example.

Now just because you believe what you said, Sueleen, would you deliberately out someone because other people who are out have told you that they are happier for it, or would you draw a line of self-restraint and believe it to be the other person's choice of when and if they come out?

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 10:16am

So DG, you believe that it is okay to out a political figure who is a hypocrite about their homosexuality and also causing harm to other homosexuals as a result?

Would you extend that to all public figures or just politicians? For example, if a movie star is gay and takes an anti-gay political public stance, would you extend the outing to that situation?

And in both cases would you still do it if the person was married and had children?

[DG]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 10:33am

While it could be argued that any anti-gay rhetoric is harmful, I personally would only out a politician whose voting affects the rights of others. And, although I get the potential harm to children involved, that wouldn't stop me - I believe the societal harm would be greater by remaining silent.

If children were involved, though, I would probably give the politician the option of either changing the voting or resigning before I outed them publically.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 10:42am

Fair enough, DG, and well thought out.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 10:47am

Mark Foley was pretending to be straight for years, all the while VOTING against pro-gay legislation. Was that enough to "out" him? [In quotes, because I object to the term.] The mainstream media refused to report on his closeted homosexuality and his hypocritical votes, even though they knew he was gay.

When it was revealed that Foley had been using his congressional position to make inappropriate sexual overtures to underage teenage pages, the media finally decided to "out" him.

The question is: If the media had reported on his closet and his hypocrisy years ago, would they have stopped Foley's abuse of power before it began?

And a larger question: Is more damage caused by "outing" or by the Closet?

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 10:51am

So then, gay men, don't put it in unless they are out?

[WithoutATrace]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 10:58am

In this day and age, there isn't really much of a reason to be in the closet anymore (especially living in manhattan). Yes, our current President is not helping the situation, but in general, everyone I've met has been very accepting of me since I came out in April 2005. I am out to my family, friends, and even at work and it is fantastic.

I would certainly never "out" anyone even if I knew he was gay, but I think it is probably better just to talk through the situation with him, find out why he isn't out and hopefully help him so that he can come out, be himself and be 100% happy with his life. Yes, most of the "excuses" have been covered. If you are scared to come out to your parents, you shouldn't be. You have to live your own life, not live for your parents. Religion? I grew up Catholic and had to go to religion school once a week after regular school and they drilled into our heads that being gay is wrong, masturbation is wrong and using condoms is wrong. How could I possibly have continued associating myself with the Catholic religion after hearing that? I agree with muscle, in that sometimes it is better just to not discuss it at work, if you feel it would make it a hostile environment if you were out at work. Luckily, in my industry (printing/publishing), there are tons of gay guys and everyone is accepting and cool with it.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 11:18am

Note that any North Carolina case that's only gone up to that same state's court of appeals only affects law in that one state, not the 49 others. What's been quoted does not rule out a lawsuit for slander, only changes presumed damages to damages you have to prove.

Civil cases generally require you to prove damages. Any personal injury case, for example. It is rare to be able to presume damages, so the effect of what was quoted is only to remove a rare privilege, not the underlying right to sue, and it only affects one state.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 11:25am

Nom, the difference is that YOU look at being gay as a shameful thing that will ruin your life. I look at it as a part of normal life that should be acknowledged and celebrated. So if I KNOW someone is gay and hiding, I will not protect them. I will not change what my relationship is with a closeted person just because their Mother is in town. I will not hide who I am to make them feel more COMFORTABLE. It is their problem.

If someone coming out hurts people that is a problem they should deal with in therapy. They should look inside of themselves and ask WHY does this matter to me.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 11:26am

Oh, and could you give me examples of people who's lives were RUINED by being outed or coming out? Changed, yes, but RUINED?

[midtowngym]

Posted: 4/11/07 at 11:39am

Ladies, Middy is not feeling the negative energy in gay culture (or this thread.) He can no longer worry about outing and someone else's love life (that's so Queer Nation 1992--a nice memory, but why return?) Maybe we all need more active love lifes ourselves?

Updated On: 4/11/07 at 11:39 AM