if a country is not worth dying for, how long will it last?- Page 2

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 11/7/07 at 5:28pm

look at the bright side, robbie, they're almost all ex-military.

and pj, when was the last blackwater or the hart group or dyncorp led an offensive? what was the last time they fired artillery on an enemy position? when was the last time they flew combat sorties? when was the last time they dropped ordnance a target?

they're not an army, they're security guards and the united states has been using private security firms for decades.

Updated On: 11/7/07 at 05:28 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/7/07 at 5:39pm

Never to this extent--and you know it!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/7/07 at 5:46pm

Here's what I think. I think that if there ever comes a situation in which something's happening and it motivates a "fight and die for it" response in me, it'll override my basic human survival instinct and I'll do it. But that survival instinct is VERY STRONG.

I think it's very easy for people to pontificate and say "Oh, I would fight and die for blah, blah, blah" when it's an abstract theoretical. And you get so many points for saying it and not actually doing anything about it. And some people would like to take away points if you don't sign on. Like Elphaba did in the other thread. Over there, if you didn't echo the "I will fight and die" for the country, you were somehow insulting the people who fought and died in the military. Which is a sentiment, but JUST a sentiment.

I'm not going to take the easy way out and say I would fight and die for this country on a message board. This country? The way it is now? I'll take it under advisement and make a determination at some other time.

Posted: 11/7/07 at 7:16pm

If 9/11- presented live in graphic detail in every single living room in the country did not inspire many people to enlist- what would?

[misschung]

Posted: 11/7/07 at 7:23pm

the truth about what actually happened

[kelzama]

Posted: 11/7/07 at 9:03pm

But joe, all the branches noted a big upswing in enrollment immediately following 9/11...

[Mamie]

Posted: 11/7/07 at 9:53pm

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

So if the country ISN'T worth dying for, then change it. The people not only CAN do it, they have the responsibility to do it. There are people in power you don't like, then put other people in power that you do. You have that right. You have that responsibility.

In the election we had this week in Virginia, only about a third of the elegible electorate showed up to vote. The Democrats ended up sweeping the election and taking control of the State Senate for the first time in a decade. Does that mean there are more citizens in Virginia supporting the Democratic slate than there are Republican voters? I don't know. There's a 2/3rd silent sector out there who chose not to have a voice in their government. The third who exercised their right and responsibility DID speak out and they did change their government representatives.

Updated On: 11/7/07 at 09:53 PM

[jasonf]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 8:34am

Of course we have the right and responsibility to change our government, but all we'd be doing is changing one rich white man for another. While there's nothing I agree with in Bush's policies or the way he's run the country the last seven years, I at least give him credit (or at least his party) for taking a stand and doing something about the things they believe in. Now, if only someone on the "good" side would have the guts to do the same thing!

And for the record, I wouldn't die for this country or any other really. The fact is, despite what papa believes, all teachers DON'T just "bitch about tenure." Some of us go into work every day looking to improve our students and hoping to make changes in the way the next generation thinks about the world around them. Who knows how much good a single teacher could do with the right student, and how much of a butterfly effect that influence could potentially lead to. No, I don't equate myself with soldiers laying down their lives in this or any actually just war, but my life is far more valuable in the trenches of a classroom than a foxhole waiting to get my head blown off for a war I completely disagree with.

[Mamie]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 9:34am

"Of course we have the right and responsibility to change our government, but all we'd be doing is changing one rich white man for another."

And you're a teacher? I no longer wonder why young people don't bother to vote. As long as you and they stay home on election day, you will make it a self fulfilling prophesy.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 9:49am

all we'd be doing is changing one rich white man for another

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but the two Democratic front-runners are (a) female and (b) black.

As a teacher, you lack perspicacity and have a worrisome tendency toward bombast and hyperbole.

In a teacher, that sucks.

[jasonf]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:02am

Umm, who said I stayed home on election day? I voted. I told my students to make sure their parents got to the polls and voted. No where did I even so much as IMPLY that I didn't vote.

And yes, I know who the front runners are. However, to deny that history hasn't shown us rich white male after rich white male in office is pretty ignorant. Besides, my original statement was in response to another post earlier saying that if we don't like the government we should change it. I whole-heartedly agree, but the fact remains that the same people have been running this country since its inception. Maybe we'll have a change now, but aside from Obama and Clinton, the rest of the possibilities available to us ARE the same old-same old: rich white men. I'm not so sure that this country is going to be willing to place a woman or a black man in office. Note: this is not my personal opinion of the candidates, but rather what I see in the voters in this country. It's still hard for me to believe that a country that managed to elect George Bush not once, but twice, will, as a whole, or even a majority, be able to have the guts to make such a bold statement.

Additionally, whether our next president is female or black, the first adjective remains true.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:06am

As do the two nouns in my post: bombast and hyperbole.

Here's two other nouns you should try and instill in your students: optimism and hope.

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:06am

Not for nothing, but you need to be damn rich to even think about running for anything here.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:21am

sorry, jason, your life's not worth a shot glass fulla cold spit in either place.

but you do have your use on a message board where you can rail righteously, if incoherently and poorly, against whatever it is that those fools you so condescend to - you know those stupid ones who don't understand your innate brilliance and greater grasp of all things - have done today. thanks for being bww's face of ignorant arrogance.

Updated On: 11/8/07 at 10:21 AM

[MuslimBwayFan]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:30am

Having lived all over this country, I've come to the conclusion that patriotism doesn't really work on such a large scale. Would I die to protect the nation? I don't know, it depends.

Would I fight/die to protect my hometown? NYC? Definitely. THAT is where my allegiance lies, the rest of the country is only so because we fly the same flag. It's too large to love that way.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:34am

Oh for god's sake. I for one am totally psyched you joined today to add value to this thread.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:37am

namo, be nice. that's muhammad ali!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:38am

Welcome, MuslimBroadwayFan!



Peekaboo! I see you!

[MuslimBwayFan]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:39am

I don't really see the validity of that post, since I was born here and wear Western clothes.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:39am

Oh dear.

[tazber]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:41am

then why did you choose that particular screen name for a theatre board? you obviously wanted us to know you're Muslim.

[MuslimBwayFan]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:42am

But what does that have to do with Middle Eastern clothing?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:42am

Did y'all hear there's gonna be a Broadway revival of "Allahspell" next season?

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:50am

Starting the day with a laugh!

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/8/07 at 10:51am

Did you know the York is adding to it's Mufti season the Dean Jones flop INTO THE BURKA?