Alex Brightman Bootleg Tweets- Page 2

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 12/21/19 at 1:35am

gypsy101 said: "is there a legal argument against it? certainly! i cannot think of a moral argument against bootlegs, consent by the people being recorded seems a moot point considering they’re already performing for ten thousand people a week"

The thing is that while yes, there's a law against cellphone usage in theaters. However, it's never enforced. It's like jaywalking in the city. Sure, it's against the law, but can you think of a time when someone got arrested for Jaywalking in New York City. Furthermore, the law was put into play years ago when cell phones were a new thing. It didn't nor does it take smartphones into account. 

And, as it was mentioned earlier in this thread, as FOH we have to make quick decisions. I have to stop someone from using their phone in a way that doesn't get in the way of others. Or, at least as little disruption as possible. Sometimes that means letting something slide, specially if, say, the offender is make in the middle of a row.  

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 12/21/19 at 4:39am

LizzieCurry said: "
The funny thing is probably about 10-20% of anyone on any given Broadway stage (including at the Winter Garden) has fond memories of trading videos either on VHS or megaupload. Not to mention watching a few less-than-legal videos on YouTube, I’m sure.
"
I’d say the percentage is higher maybe 40%

 

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 12/21/19 at 4:39am

LizzieCurry said: "
The funny thing is probably about 10-20% of anyone on any given Broadway stage (including at the Winter Garden) has fond memories of trading videos either on VHS or megaupload. Not to mention watching a few less-than-legal videos on YouTube, I’m sure.
"
I’d say the percentage is higher maybe 40%

 

[trpguyy]

Posted: 12/21/19 at 9:53am

And then there are the constant posts from Broadway performers reposting bootlegs of themselves or asking for copies of bootlegs. Kind of undercuts all of the “don’t film the show” arguments from their colleagues.

[VotePeron]

Posted: 12/21/19 at 10:28am

Beetlejuice has gotta pick a side. Their entire fandom is built off bootleg clips that have gone viral on TikTok and Instagram. They “love their fans” when it’s convenient and helping with closing backlash, but not when it really means they’re just coming to film the show and post it online.

[magictodo123]

Posted: 12/23/19 at 7:50am

I don't want to start a fight, so I only have one thing to say. 

It's very interesting to me that people think theater is so inaccessible. If you have your heart set on seeing Moulin Rouge! in premium seats then yes, it will cost a fortune. if you want to see a show off Broadway, if you're able to rush a show, if you use discounts like BroadwayBox, TKTS, TDF, TodayTix (GOSH it bugs me when people call it TodaySTix with a "S"….it's SO much less expensive! The things that do cost money are hotels, food, etc. if you're coming from far away. Otherwise there are SO many ways to get affordable tickets. And if you can't afford tickets, I'm sorry, but even people who LIVE in places that are close to theater don't go. or can't afford it themselves. Theater is not only for the "elite" and I hate when people say that. The only way I've seen a show a bunch of times is because I save and then use codes or rush. We have to stop thinking theater is only for the rich. I am FAR from being rich. People just know how to get affordable tickets in their price range. 

[Babe_Williams]

Posted: 12/23/19 at 8:49am

Bettyboy72 said: "I think most performers prefer to not know they are being filmed. It’s distracting see people filming. I don’t think they are completely opposed to bootlegs.

A European woman next to me at Moulin Rouge was filming from the bun in her hair. No lie. She was completely stealth and disrupted no one. I did tell an usher but she left too quickly.

I always wonder how the bootlegs from the 80s and 90s existed? Did people lug camcorders into the theatre? God bless those people."

 

I am absolutely curious about this too. There are some late 80s bootlegs of Phantom and Les Miz out there. Were they smuggling a camcorder in or did they pay big bucks for some kind of smaller recorder?

 

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/23/19 at 9:17am

magictodo123 said: "I don't want to start a fight, so I only have one thing to say.

It's very interesting to me that people think theater is so inaccessible. If you have your heart set on seeing Moulin Rouge! in premium seats then yes, it will cost a fortune. if you want to see a show off Broadway, if you're able to rush a show, if you use discounts like BroadwayBox, TKTS, TDF, TodayTix (GOSH it bugs me when people call it TodaySTix with a "S"….it's SO much less expensive! The things that do cost money are hotels, food, etc. if you're coming from far away. Otherwise there are SO many ways to get affordable tickets. And if you can't afford tickets, I'm sorry, but even people who LIVE in places that are close to theater don't go. or can't afford it themselves. Theater is not only for the "elite" and I hate when people say that. The only way I've seen a show a bunch of times is because I save and then use codes or rush. We have to stop thinking theater is only for the rich. I am FAR from being rich. People just know how to get affordable tickets in their price range."

 

Exactly. Well put.

I would plan my trips to NYC months ahead, as I have noticed some here do. Save and plan. I have seen some people say that they just can't get to NYC. I don't know the reasons. Possibly because they are too young to travel alone or their families can't make the trip. I grew up in PA just outside of West Philly. Prior to being able to go myself I went on one bus trip to NYC to see THE WIZ. Outside of that until I was able to go on my own I read magazines and watched stage performers on tv. That was my connection. When I was old enough to go up on my own (With a friend), I planned in advance.

I have not been able to see many many shows I have wanted to see. Some I have had to wait to see on tour when I lived across the country. Some I have seen regional productions of.

It is live theater. That is what makes it special. There was a comment about copyright issues. Believe it or not, there have been people who have gone to shows and snapped pictures or filmed because they are doing a regional production of a show and want to copy things from the original. I know people who have done this. Or tried. So the "wrongness" does include the copyright issues.

So if you can't see a show, you can't see it. I spent many a day in my room listening to cast recordings wishing I could see a show. I didn't feel then nor do I feel now that because one can't see a show that they should be filmed to see (And actually a lot are and can bee seen at the NYPL, if you have access or for broadcast on PBS) or that bootlegs are a good thing. Sometimes we just can't have what we want. I know that is a hard pill to swallow for some but that is just the way it is. JMO

 

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 12/23/19 at 9:53am

At the end of the day, theatre is a business. Just like any other business. Just because it's entertainment or supposed to be opening people up to the arts or whatever else, it's still a business. The business owners set a price based on market demand. If you can and want to pay that price to see it? Great, you get to see it. If you can't or don't want to, then sorry, but you don't get to. No one owes you a free copy of the show just because you can't or don't want to pay what they're charging.

Sorry, not at all trying to be insensitive to folks who can't afford to see theatre--I'd wager every single person on this board has at some point been in that position, myself certainly included--but that's just how the market works. If I can't afford $400 sneakers, I don't get to walk up to the Nike store and demand a free copy of them. If there's a 10-day cruise to the Bahamas, I don't get to show up to the dock that morning and say "Give me a $30 rush ticket so I can afford this". If the business owner chooses to offer this? Great, that's wonderful. But they are under no obligation to and they certainly aren't obligated to allow you to film their product for free so other people can see it.

[magictodo123]

Posted: 12/23/19 at 9:54am

uncageg said: "magictodo123 said: "I don't want to start a fight, so I only have one thing to say.

It's very interesting to me that people think theater is so inaccessible. If you have your heart set on seeing Moulin Rouge! in premium seats then yes, it will cost a fortune. if you want to see a show off Broadway, if you're able to rush a show, if you use discounts like BroadwayBox, TKTS, TDF, TodayTix (GOSH it bugs me when people call it TodaySTix with a "S"….it's SO much less expensive! The things that do cost money are hotels, food, etc. if you're coming from far away. Otherwise there are SO many ways to get affordable tickets. And if you can't afford tickets, I'm sorry, but even people who LIVE in places that are close to theater don't go. or can't afford it themselves. Theater is not only for the "elite" and I hate when people say that. The only way I've seen a show a bunch of times is because I save and then use codes or rush. We have to stop thinking theater is only for the rich. I am FAR from being rich. People just know how to get affordable tickets in their price range."



Exactly. Well put.

I would plan my trips to NYC months ahead, as I have noticed some here do. Save and plan. I have seen some people say that they just can't get to NYC. I don't know the reasons. Possibly because they are too young to travel alone or their families can't make the trip. I grew up in PA just outside of West Philly. Prior to being able to go myself I went on one bus trip to NYC to see THE WIZ. Outside of that until I was able to go on my own I read magazines and watched stage performers on tv. That was my connection. When I was old enough to go up on my own (With a friend), I planned in advance.

I have not been able to see many many shows I have wanted to see. Some I have had to wait to see on tour when I lived across the country. Some I have seen regional productions of.

It is live theater. That is what makes it special. There was a comment about copyright issues. Believe it or not, there have been people who have gone to shows and snapped pictures or filmed because they are doing a regional production of a show and want to copy things from the original. I know people who have done this. Or tried. So the "wrongness" does include the copyright issues.

So if you can't see a show, you can't see it. I spent many a day in my room listening to cast recordings wishing I could see a show. I didn't feel then nor do I feel now that because one can't see a show that they should be filmed to see (And actually a lot are and can bee seen at the NYPL, if you have access or for broadcast on PBS) or that bootlegs are a good thing. Sometimes we just can't have what we want. I know that is a hard pill to swallow for some but that is just the way it is. JMO

"

I think you might be the first person who actually agrees with me :) I also held back on saying a lot because I don't want to fight about this subject again. It's gotten me in hot water before, so I just focused on the other part of this argument that people focus on. There are SO many amazing shows off-Broadway, off-off-Broadway that go unnoticed that should be given a chance! 

Hamilton. Fun Home. Slave Play, Hadestown. SO many others. These are shows that started off in smaller venues like New York Theater Workshop, Ars Nova (Great Comet), The Public Theater (which usually does have expensive tickets but you can rush their shows for less via TodayTix). All of thee shows started off in places that deserve more attention. That's when the tickets are less expensive! Plus, the quality is just as good!! 

[brettystar]

Posted: 12/24/19 at 7:56pm

I’m in two minds on this. I think if it can be recorded and no one detects you doing so and you use it totally for personal use then it’s ok 100%. I think if you’re a die hard fan and you’ve paid to see it - perhaps multiple times and you just want a personal copy as there’s no other way to have it - then morally I have no issue with it. If they sold a copy of a live filming I would for sure buy it - but they so often don’t. However it should never distract another audience member or performer/crew ever. Period. I have no idea when I will get to see this show as I don’t live in the US so at the moment I’m loving everything I can find on YouTube. They will still most definitely bet my $$$ as I have the recording and stream it over and over and first chance I can see this I will be begging them to take my money. The stuff you can find when you won’t get to see a show for perhaps several years maintains the engagement for those fans. I have no idea how these things were filmed in the days of the VHS swaps but you can bet they never disrupted anyone or they most likely would have been confiscated.

[UsedToBeTheKing]

Posted: 12/25/19 at 4:41pm

Totally agree on theatre being more accessible than people make it out to be. I think people often include their own air fare and hotel stay when claiming Broadway tickets are "too expensive." Most shows offer ticket lotteries every single night for less than $50. A show like BEETLEJUICE has advance partial view orchestra seats for about $73 (including fees). Saying tickets should be less for some kind of moral or ethical reason is like saying no one working on the show deserves to get paid for their work. It amazes me how some people think Broadway is this cash cow that just inflates ticket prices for the hell of it, rather than a struggling New York staple trying to stay in business. 

Some people also don't even consider National Tours in their "Broadway tickets are too expensive" equation. Yes, flying to New York to see BEETLEJUICE from Florida may be out of the realm of possibility, but in 2021 it'll be touring all over the US. Just because it's not the original cast in the original theatre doesn't mean it's not worthy of supporting or seeing.

Every time Alex posts one of these tweet threads he gets a wave of angry responses under the "you're being elitist" camp. It's so unfair coming from people who only see headlines like "$400 tickets for Moulin Rouge opening night", and have no idea how tkts, TDF, or ticket lottos work. You think he'd learned his lesson by now, but I understand where his frustration is coming from, especially if it's true that Winter Garden staff have been instructed not to stop disruptive audience members. (Very strange, considering there's no need to keep the aisles clear during the show.) 

On the bootleg topic, I support them when done discreetly and respectfully. I know many (including Alex) don't agree, but I see real value in having recordings of shows. I'd honestly be satisfied if video bootlegging ended completely, as long as I still had audio to be able to experience some of those rare, magical moments you can never get back (or weren't even alive for!). I think most of the offenders with cellphones overtly filming are tourists, wanting more to capture their vacation than to share with the bootlegging community. It's a real shame how theatre etiquette seems to be getting worse as the years go by. That being said, I've already seen copies of pro-shot musicals uploaded to YouTube as "bootlegs." At this rate, proshots will continue losing money and we'll have to rely on bootlegs forever. 

Updated On: 12/25/19 at 04:41 PM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 12/25/19 at 5:35pm

Babe: Yes, a lot of those were done on somehow smuggled-in VHS camcorders. But at one point in the late '90s you could get a somewhat smaller camera. You just needed to be able to convert it to VHS if you wanted to share anything from it. My dad had a small one we used on vacation in the late '90s and it's still sitting around at my parents' house because the only thing you can watch it on is the existing camcorder. The tapes themselves were about half (maybe 3/4) of the size of a regular VHS tape.

[Olivia11]

Posted: 12/25/19 at 6:08pm

Video taping of shows is wrong. Period.

I don’t care who does or does not watch them, your ticket does not entitle you to video anything. If you somehow justify it to yourself, you.are.wrong.

[superiska123]

Posted: 12/25/19 at 6:25pm

From a purely selfish perspective, I am extremely glad some legendary performances have been bootlegged for future generations to experience... Of course, I'd prefer it if all shows simply got a professional video recording, but since that isn't usually an option, bootlegs still serve the purpose of preserving amazing actors in their iconic roles.

[MollyJeanneMusic]

Posted: 12/25/19 at 6:47pm

superiska123 said: "From a purely selfish perspective, I am extremely glad some legendary performances have been bootlegged for future generations to experience... Of course, I'd prefer it if all shows simply got a professional video recording, but since that isn't usually an option, bootlegs still serve the purpose of preserving amazing actors in their iconic roles."

I always think of it this way: imagine what would have happened if there had been a bootleg of Julie Andrews in My Fair Lady.  It would've solved so many problems.

[magictodo123]

Posted: 12/26/19 at 7:05am

Olivia11 said: "Video taping of shows is wrong. Period.

I don’t care who does or does not watch them, your ticket does not entitle you to video anything. If you somehow justify it to yourself, you.are.wrong."

Agree with this 100%. I was literally kicked out of a group on Facebook because I told them this. They were trying to say, or they DID say, I paid x amount of money so I'm entitled to videotape. Uh, no. You're not. Ever. 

 

Also, I used to work at The Public Theater. As of today I have yet to see a bootleg of the original productions of A Chorus Line, Fun Home and Hamilton that premiered there, and I think everyone who didn't see those shows is doing just fine having never seen them. There have been MANY world premieres at that theater and the house staff is so on top of it that I have yet to see a bootleg from one of their productions surface. 

 

I also agree with the person above me who mentioned TKTS, TDF--taking out travel from the equation, there are SO many ways to see affordable theater. Yes, you don't get to choose your seat, but if you wanted to see the show as much as you say you did, you'd be happy being there and just seeing the show. I've been wanting to see a certain show for a while now and this week it appeared on one of the websites I previously mentioned. I paid less than $50. I'm well aware that if you're coming from far away you don't want to pin all your hope on a lottery you may or may not win for a show that's incredibly hard to get tickets for (Hamilton and Moulin Rouge! being the first two shows I can think of), but also do NOT dismiss other shows that are in places other than Broadway! Broadway is NOT the be all end all of theater. You can find shows for just as good quality in other places. Seeing original casts? Listen to the cast recording. Watch talk show performances. Watch awards show performances like the Tony Awards. We need to face the fact that we are an entitled society that wants what we want, when we want it and that is ENTIRELY unrealistic. I would have LOVED to see Boys In The Band on Broadway. I think it came up on TDF several times. But did I see it? No. Because I couldn't afford it. Did I ask someone to illegally record it? No. It's the hard truth that you can not get what you want and there are going to be shows you miss. I hate the "elitist" angle because it's SO untrue. 

[Alexa Smith2]

Posted: 12/26/19 at 7:08am

wow great!!

[MollyJeanneMusic]

Posted: 12/26/19 at 9:50am

magictodo123 said: "Olivia11 said: "Video taping of shows is wrong. Period.

I don’t care who does or does not watch them, your ticket does not entitle you to video anything. If you somehow justify it to yourself, you.are.wrong."

Agree with this 100%. I was literally kicked out of a group on Facebook because I told them this. They were trying to say, or they DID say, I paid x amount of money so I'm entitled to videotape. Uh, no. You're not. Ever.



Also, I used to work at The Public Theater. As of today I have yet to see a bootleg of the original productions of A Chorus Line, Fun Home and Hamilton that premiered there, and I think everyone who didn't see those shows is doing just fine having never seen them. There have been MANY world premieres at that theater and the house staff is so on top of it that I have yet to see a bootleg from one of their productions surface.



I also agree with the person above me who mentioned TKTS, TDF--taking out travel from the equation, there are SO many ways to see affordable theater. Yes, you don't get to choose your seat, but if you wanted to see the show as much as you say you did, you'd be happy being there and just seeing the show. I've been wanting to see a certain show for a while now and this week it appeared on one of the websites I previously mentioned. I paid less than $50. I'm well aware that if you're coming from far away you don't want to pin all your hope on a lottery you may or may not win for a show that's incredibly hard to get tickets for (Hamilton and Moulin Rouge! being the first two shows I can think of), but also do NOT dismiss other shows that are in places other than Broadway! Broadway is NOT the be all end all of theater. You can find shows for just as good quality in other places. Seeing original casts? Listen to the cast recording. Watch talk show performances. Watch awards show performances like the Tony Awards. We need to face the fact that we are an entitled society that wants what we want, when we want it and that is ENTIRELY unrealistic. I would have LOVED to see Boys In The Band on Broadway. I think it came up on TDF several times. But did I see it? No. Because I couldn't afford it. Did I ask someone to illegally record it? No. It's the hard truth that you can not get what you want and there are going to be shows you miss. I hate the "elitist" angle because it's SO untrue."

But isn't Boys in the Band being filmed professionally?  I think the "elitist" angle isn't always necessarily from ticket sales - it's about the prejudice against professionally filmed versions of the show.  By saying "live theatre is the be all and end all, and if you don't want that don't come," it makes it hard for overseas fans, or people who just can't afford to go.  Proshots make it possible for these people to see the shows while still getting a bit of residual money to the show itself.  But there seems to be a large number of people denouncing even them, saying they can't capture the full experience.  Maybe they don't, but they sure as heck try.  I probably wouldn't be writing on this board, seeing musicals, performing in shows at my local performing arts center, if it weren't for the Newsies proshot.  That was what got me into theatre - it introduced me to more modern shows like Dear Evan Hansen, it got me interested in the politics of Broadway - and when my Center announced they'd be doing a pilot production of Newsies Jr. last year, I jumped at the chance and haven't stopped doing theatre there since.  (Also, both the Newsies Jr. run and their full production of Newsies this year were sold-out runs, which tells you something about proshots' supposed effects on ticket sales.)  I even went to see Beautiful because of two people of whom I had become fans because of Newsies (Melissa Benoist, whom I watched in Supergirl after learning that Jeremy Jordan was on the show; and Kara Lindsay, who played Katharine in Newsies on Broadway and in the proshot).  Obviously this is only one point of view, but I think the issue here isn't bootlegs versus actually seeing the show live - it's bootlegs versus proshots.

[herewegoabc]

Posted: 12/26/19 at 10:19am

Just to weigh in on the whole "Broadway is for the elite" argument... it doesn't help when you have people like Neil Patrick Harris complaining multiple times in a single Tweet about paying $300 a head to take his family to see Christmas Carol. Those are clearly premium seats, but it feeds into the illusion that ticket prices are out of this world. They aren't. Simple as that.

I live nowhere close to NY, but I manage to get there several times a year. Yes, my flights and hotels add up, but the actual price of the show tickets is not bad at all. In fact, it's often cheaper for me to fly to NY and see a show there than it is to go to a local tour stop. Those ticket prices are usually more expensive than anything I ever end up paying in NY. And yes, I realize I'm am adult and can travel on my own (luckily, we have cheap flights from my area), while a lot of these arguments are coming from kids/teens who don't have that option. Still. Broadway isn't for the elite. Sometimes you just have to wait until you can get there.

Updated On: 12/26/19 at 10:19 AM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/26/19 at 11:35am

My wife and I live here. For 20 plus years we attended. We both on SS and I disagree . Not paying the prices and many of our friends feel the same .Add to that the political sermonizing and it still is not worth it. If you feel.differently fine.We have not been to theater in almost 4 years and somehow we survive . We have our memories and that will suffice. Time moves on

Everything changes with time. Our not attending is high prices and lack of interest in shows. How many times can you see the same show revived? We did not like Mormon and were not thrilled with bits we saw of Hamilton. These shows not out cup of tea.

Glad you still go. Enjoy

Updated On: 12/26/19 at 11:35 AM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/26/19 at 11:45am

magictodo123 said: "Also, I used to work at The Public Theater. As of today I have yet to see a bootleg of the original productions of A Chorus Line, Fun Home and Hamilton that premiered there”

 

Theres parts from a boot of  “Fun Home” from The Public on YouTube.  

[ModernMillie3]

Posted: 12/26/19 at 2:23pm

You're a jerk if you record a show, everyone knows that. 

it doesn't help when you have people like Neil Patrick Harris complaining multiple times in a single Tweet about paying $300 a head to take his family to see Christmas Carol. Those are clearly premium seats, but it feeds into the illusion that ticket prices are out of this world. 

Well, he's the worst so not really surprising. 

[CheapTrickInColor]

Posted: 12/26/19 at 2:54pm

Seems like opinions on bootlegs split along a generational line. The divide is around 30 (Brightman is on the older end) where over that you really hate em and under that you post bootlegs on your Twitter along with your TikTok memes. If there were no widely available cell phones when you were a kid watching your first shows, you tend to dislike smartphone bootlegs in a way people who have always or almost always lived in a world of omnipresent cell phones just don't--and this applies to theater fans as well as performers. Of course this isn't a hard and fast rule, but it does seem to be an age thing whether being filmed is flattering/helpful or disrespectful/harmful. I know I've watched my fair share of bootlegs, but I would be lying if I said it wouldn't bug me to sit next to someone recording the whole show in an actual theater.

I think the theaters themselves could patch this up a little bit by releasing reasonably priced professional recordings of the shows. Nothing wild with multiple cameras and cranes or whatever but one or two good cameras with a pro operator. Lots of shows get pro recorded anyways, but the public never sees them. Having pro recordings would allow people to support the creatives monetarily through purchases of the video, they would be less intrusive than some random guy holding up a cell phone the whole show, and performers might be more comfortable knowing that the camera will be there, where it will be, and what will be done with that footage after the fact. Maybe like 5-10 bucks a pop; I don't know. I'm not an accountant or theater manager.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 12/26/19 at 5:02pm

First off, those suggesting that all shows be filmed in some form or another don’t likely understand how much easier said than done is. There’s a lot of moving parts.

Also, I feel that the folks who are justifying bootlegs in any form of another are totally in the wrong. Yes, you enjoy theatre and don’t live in the city. And, I feel for those folks, I really do. But, sometimes you can’t always get what you want regarding a particular Broadway show you want to see. Hell, I live here and can’t even begin to list the shows I wanted to see because of cost. It happens.