Are attitudes towards bootleg recordings changing?

[binau]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 5:36am

Many years ago, to enjoy bootleg recordings was kind of like being gay in the 50s....we all acknowledged it was happening in the community but no one would talk about it and if you did, you risk being shamed. Now, they are shared all over social media on a daily basis. Creatives share them. A full video bootleg of Rachel Z's "A New Argentina" has been on YouTube for almost 2 weeks with tens of thousands of views and no one has removed it (the visuals are a terrible representation of the in-theatre experience but you can hear Rachel Z's incredible vocals).

You can easily find heaps of bootlegs under 'slime material' euphemisms that aren't taken down, too (this has been going on for years of course). 

I don't think we should openly encourage bootleg recording especially because it can have a negative impact on other theatre goers and the cast (see: everyone complaining about the filming taking place during Sunset B final performance). But it seems like something has changed....

 

[KrupYou]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 8:15am

I hope so. Short clips on social media help shows and concerts. 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 8:55am

I think producers are realizing that they’re a net positive. It’s essentially free marketing. I’ve never listened to or watched a bootleg clip which has made me decide to NOT see that show. 
Most often they’re from shows in the past that I missed, or am too far away to see. 
I’m sure the Evita clips are having more of an effect of “I’ll definitely see that in NYC!” than “Oh I get it, I don’t need to see this show.” And you just know any actor who disparages bootlegs simply PORED over the JCS clips. 

What’s interesting for me is that it’s the LA Phil demanding the JCS videos be removed rather than the rights holder (Really Useful or is it Universal?). One would imagine seeing how fantastic a Hollywood Bowl show is would make people commit to going to the next one. But I suppose the unions have their say as well. 

Many pieces in the puzzle.

[John Adams]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 9:38am

binau said: "A full video bootleg of Rachel Z's "A New Argentina" has been on YouTube for almost 2 weeks with tens of thousands of views and no one has removed it (the visuals are a terrible representation of the in-theatre experience but you can hear Rachel Z's incredible vocals).

You can easily find heaps of bootlegs under 'slime material' euphemisms that aren't taken down, too (this has been going on for years of course)."

RE: the specific instance of A New Argentina that you mentioned, the phrase "a full bootleg" is slightly misleading. 

• The song is performed in a public space, and intentionally meant to be publicly viewed (can you imagine how ineffective the theatrical device would be if, performance after performance, NO ONE were gathered beneath that balcony to watch?) IMO, posting any video of her performance, under those conditions, is not really a "bootleg" (similar to posting videos of roaming characters at Disney parks, et.al.). As Stand-by mentions, that's a GOOD thing. The production is literally employing unpaid ensemble members, as well as getting free publicity.
• The slime tutorials are stickier (see what I did there?). Although filming in the theater is both illegal AND obnoxiously distracting, I know that I, and others in circumstances like mine, would not be able to see these shows any other way. (Thank goodness for PBS - Please write your congressional representatives regarding restoration of funds to public media via [e-mail]!)

Maybe what might be done is to have productions control any filming by doing it themselves (perhaps from what would be considered an SRO ticket view), charge a REASONABLE price (i.e., 25% of what the average Joe might currently have in their purse/wallet as walking-around money) and allow people to purchase a link to download or view from the production's website. 

It would most certainly not eliminate the problem, but it could allow productions to feel better about getting at least SOME compensation that offsets the theft.

I know that if the cost were reasonable (for me, that would be something comparable to renting a less-popular movie on Amazon or Netflix [i.e., ~$5), I would participate. If the price were attractive, they might strike a balance that was beneficial to all by making money through volume sales.

 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 9:48am

^ A New Argentina vs Don’t Cry For Me Argentina 

[witchoftheeast2]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 9:57am

KrupYou said: "I hope so. Short clips on social media help shows and concerts."

Is that why even though RWHC had people recording it still closed due to good sales? Oh wait...

It's really a show by show case on if they're helpful or not. If it's a big show like Evita, of course people are going to buy tickets. You can't go by that. You have to ask if it has helped smaller shows. Did it help Maybe Happy Ending? No. I think that was purely word of mouth. Have the helped, or have cast members called them out? 

Attitude isn't changing. People are just tired and people who think they're owed free access to shows instead of paying like everyone else are wearing them down. 

[MollyJeanneMusic]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 10:02am

As someone on the younger side who has only seen this through the lens of pre-COVID into the shutdown and the years afterward, I feel like there's actually been a recent growth of an anti-bootleg sentiment among people who five years ago would have been all for the extra access.  Part of this is from a smart reframing of bootlegs by actors recently, including Casey Likes and Alina Mayagoitia, as a consent issue rather than an access issue - which is personal for both of these performers specifically as they have scenes where there are at least partially undressed, and from a legal standpoint, they are completely in the right to be upset if people are filming that for public consumption that they didn't agree to.  That being said, I think the gap has become even more polarized, especially after certain actors dug their heels in on bootlegs during the COVID shutdown at the same time as some of their colleagues turned to Instagram to ask for bootlegs of their own shows that they missed dearly.  Nowadays, the arguments I see online are that "if you don't like bootlegs, you're an elitist snob and the reason Broadway is going to die" vs. "if you like bootlegs, you're violating actors' consent and Broadway will die if your phone isn't locked up during the show."  Clearly for some shows there's money in releasing their own proshot (like the upcoming releases of Hamilton and Merrily), but that still falls into the tricky logistics of Broadway capitalism, just on a larger scale (with most, if not all, of the recent commercially-released proshots having either a celebrity attached or a big-name show/anniversary combo).

[John Adams]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 10:05am

BorisTomashevsky said: "^ A New Argentina vs Don’t Cry For Me Argentina"

Good catch... and thoughtfully/respectfully worded 

Updated On: 8/7/25 at 10:05 AM

[trentsketch]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 10:33am

In the sense of being open to small, meaningful clips not taken down? Yes, it looks like that.

Death Becomes Her is kind of embracing the love for the understudies and allowing the viral audio moments to remain on social media for the different actors playing Madeline and Helen. Specifically, I see the "That was rude" reveal, "So tell me, Earnest," and a good chunk of "Madeline." They themselves put out that great behind the scenes look at the staircase stunt. 

But even shows like Hamilton seem to be relaxing more with cast posting stuff. Like, JJ has some great videos from the wings of his final solo as Charles Lee.

Shoot, the walk in Sunset and Don't Cry for Me in Evita are designed to be filmed and shared. 

These short little clips are building interest in the shows, which can't be a bad thing. I don't see full length slime tutorials being accepted anytime soon, but little slivers of compelling moments (as long as the recording process itself doesn't pose a risk to cast/crew because of bright lights or signal interference) seem to be getting the blind eye now.

Don't get me started on how many angles we have of JCS. It's like K-Pop fancam status at this point.

[darquegk]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 10:57am

I remember the Beetlejuice closing night bootleg that was all over YouTube: multicam edited footage, soundboard audio (or a VERY good extra mic). Honestly, it looked like a fair substitute for the proshot that was cancelled. 

[witchoftheeast2]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 11:33am

trentsketch said: "In the sense of being open to small, meaningful clips not taken down? Yes, it looks like that.

Death Becomes Her is kind of embracing the love for the understudies and allowing the viral audio moments to remain on social media for the different actors playing Madeline and Helen. Specifically, I see the "That was rude" reveal, "So tell me, Earnest," and a good chunk of "Madeline." They themselves put out that great behind the scenes look at the staircase stunt.

But even shows like Hamilton seem to be relaxing more with cast posting stuff. Like, JJ has some great videos from the wings of his final solo as Charles Lee.

Shoot, the walk in Sunset and Don't Cry for Me in Evita are designed to be filmed and shared.

These short little clips are building interest in the shows, which can't be a bad thing. I don't see full length slime tutorials being accepted anytime soon, but little slivers of compelling moments (as long as the recording process itself doesn't pose a risk to cast/crew because of bright lights or signal interference) seem to be getting the blind eye now.

Don't get me started on how many angles we have of JCS. It's like K-Pop fancam status at this point."

Remind me- when small slivers of Cameron Dallas in Mean Girls leaked did it help sales or no? 

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 11:45am

It pretty much changed during the lockdown pandemic when actors of shows were asking for bootlegs on their social media ... 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 4:39pm

John Adams said: "Maybe what might be done is to have productions control any filming by doing it themselves (perhaps from what would be considered an SRO ticket view), charge a REASONABLE price (i.e., 25% of what the average Joe might currentlyhave in their purse/wallet as walking-around money) and allow people to purchase a link to download or view from the production's website. It would most certainly not eliminate the problem, but it could allow productions to feel better about getting at least SOME compensation that offsets the theft. I know that if the cost were reasonable (for me, that would be something comparable to renting a less-popular movie on Amazon or Netflix [i.e., ~$5), I would participate. If the price were attractive, theymightstrike a balance that was beneficial to all by making money through volume sales."

Producers benefit from bootlegs mainly because there aren't talent payments.

Actors are paid to perform live. Their salary does not include recorded material. There's also alllll the other unions in the building. Some workers and productions embrace bootlegs, others don't (Jasmine kept going on about hating to see Boop bootlegs from Chicago because she didn't feel her performance was as good –– whereas the production probably didn't care, any exposure was positive for them).

I would bet money that the LA Phil is taking that action because their musicians' union complained or a star's agent complained.

Having a decent recording of a full show available could end up being a huge waste of money for the production (because of all the costs involved with actually producing the recording and paying the people involved upfront), whether the price to stream it was nominal or the cost of a ticket. Look at cast albums: nearly every cast album nowadays loses money, and video-recording a show would be double or triple the cost of a cast album. Could cost a half-million or more. It would vary show by show if it helped or hurt ticket sales, but I doubt most shows would be helped.

Updated On: 8/7/25 at 04:39 PM

[witchoftheeast2]

Posted: 8/7/25 at 5:17pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "John Adams said: "Maybe what might be done is to have productions control any filming by doing it themselves (perhaps from what would be considered an SRO ticket view), charge a REASONABLE price (i.e., 25% of what the average Joe might currentlyhave in their purse/wallet as walking-around money) and allow people to purchase a link to download or view from the production's website. It would most certainly not eliminate the problem, but it could allow productions to feel better about getting at least SOME compensation that offsets the theft. I know that if the cost were reasonable (for me, that would be something comparable to renting a less-popular movie on Amazon or Netflix [i.e., ~$5), I would participate. If the price were attractive, theymightstrike a balance that was beneficial to all by making money through volume sales."

Producers benefit from bootlegs mainly because there aren't talent payments.

Actors are paid to perform live. Their salary does not include recorded material. There's also alllll the other unions in the building. Some workers and productions embrace bootlegs, others don't (Jasmine kept going on about hating to see Boop bootlegs from Chicago because she didn't feel her performance was asgood –– whereas the production probably didn't care, any exposure was positive for them).

I would bet money that the LA Phil is taking that action because their musicians' union complained or a star's agent complained.

Having a decent recording of a full show available could end up being a huge waste of money for the production (because of all the costs involved with actually producing the recording and paying the people involved upfront), whether the price to stream it was nominal or the cost of a ticket. Look at cast albums: nearly every cast album nowadays loses money, and video-recording a show would be double or triple the cost of a cast album. Could cost a half-million or more. It would vary show by show if it helpedor hurtticket sales, but I doubt most shows would be helped."

 

Updated On: 8/7/25 at 05:17 PM