BARE cast- Page 58

[Trisky]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:30pm

I think the problem for me is that as a female I just want to shake her for her overwhelming neediness. I'm also not every keen on the way she pretty much just uses Matt.

But honestly the real issue is that outside of being the conduit that creates the conflict, I'm just not sure she's a very fully realized, nuanced character yet.

Well that and I'm generally unsympathetic anyway. :P

[aspiringguy715]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:31pm

YAY BLUEWIZARD!!!

Yes Michael is the cutest man ever, IMO. No question.

I don't know about the John Hill thing. I mean, he does look older, but I feel that it's part of his character. Someone who's written to be that good looking has to look older because it's High School we're talking about. All the good looking guys in my High School don't look 18 or younger.

I must pick up "A Swim, Two Boys." I need some gay literature. I'm such a literary analysis buff, so I'm sure that plus a gay romance will be Christmas to me. I have to finish "Great Expectations" for school though...ugh. Mindless Dickens novel with little meaning so far other than Dickens' typical views of society woven into some "trying to be a coming of age" story. Sorry about the rant!

Has anyone heard of the movie/book called "Latter Days"? It looked interesting...

[WhatDoINeedWithLove?]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:32pm

See, im the opposite I have sympathy for EVERYTHING! lol

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:34pm

I completely agree, and I've always felt guilty for not sympathizing for Ivy. But I've never been the school slut, so deep down in my black and rotten heart, I'm laughing wickedly. She really is the thorn in Peter and Jason's side, and she treats Matt like crap, so all I can give her is cold pity.

Updated On: 8/18/04 at 11:34 PM

[bobby_strong]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:37pm

lol trisky!

I think that her character does deserve some sympathy because just as nadia says, " Im so sick of you moping around when you've had the world handed to you because youre pretty." I think that is a classic case. She doesnt want to be the bitch of the group but she doesnt know much else which makes it all the more sad that she has to find out the hard way that she could have went about it completely differently. The sympathy isnt for her being alone but comes more from the fact that she had to experience such an awful event to realize she had the power to change and didnt.

ramble ramble! Well i have to get back to working out. good night!

[aspiringguy715]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:38pm

I always have to bring up the meek, shy, vulnerable side whenever she's talking to Jason. Those are the times I feel for her. When she's asking him to talk, and then when she sings "I wasn't lying when I said I had to talk to you." Maybe Ivy being a bitch is just hiding insecurities? When she's trying to talk to Jason about how she's pregnant and he ignores her, she finally breaks out with "..you got me pregnant put that in your f*cking speech!" Maybe she can't deal with being ignored.

[WhatDoINeedWithLove?]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:39pm

The only thing that REALLY took away sympathy for Ivy in my case is the way it makes Peter feel. Seriously, I feel bad for her after what happens with Jason. Sure he resists but he could of left-he was using her just as much as Ivy uses other people. He was trying to have one last attempt to convince himself he was straight. I feel less sympathy for Matt then I do for Ivy bc of what he does at the end

[Trisky]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:40pm

Bluewizard, several people have recommended that book to me. It's on my very long list of books I must get. Of course I should probably finish the stacks and stacks of books I have that are sitting unread first.

Poor Jenna, bless her for taking on this character fearlessly and against many, many Peter/Jason supporters. LOL I also have to say, her vocals continually surprise me, the more and more I hear her sing. Other than "All Grown Up" she left very little impression on me, vocally speaking when I saw the show. But having seen her at Joe's Pub and at Michael's show, her voice just gets more and more colorful in my ear.

ETA: I think the key difference in having sympathy vs. not having sympathy is whether or not you believe that Ivy is just covering insecurities with attitude. Strictly going by the text of the play, I would imagine that's what we're supposed to feel, but something loses itself in the translation for me.

Updated On: 8/18/04 at 11:40 PM

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:41pm

You HAVE to read "At Swim, Two Boys". It's the Ulysses or Les Miserables of gay literature! aspiringguy and Trisky, PM me after you read it so we can talk about it (no one I know wants to pick up a 600-page book. *sigh*).

About "Latter Days": it played at the gay film festival in my city, but it was really popular and I couldn't get tickets. Is it just me, or is there a current interest in gay Mormons these days? "Angels in America", "Latter Days", "Confessions of a Mormon Boy"....these are all very popular right now. (I have to say, though, that those Mormon boys ARE hot. Must be the salt in Utah or something.)

Back to Ivy: I do like how the creative team don't try to curve her character at the end. While the other students are mourning Jason's death, Ivy is still bitter.

I don't think they can change Ivy too much, because it would change the dynamic between (and our sympathy for) Peter and Jason, and also how Matt fits into the picture. Although I don't like her character, she plays a necessary foil.

Updated On: 8/18/04 at 11:41 PM

[WhatDoINeedWithLove?]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:41pm

oh man i just re-read that last post of mine. i sound like a moron, lol

[Trisky]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:50pm

No you didn't WhatdoIneed. I know exactly what you're saying, because you feel so much for Peter, it's hard to watch him heartbroken because of Ivy's actions.

Bluewizard I will now be stepping foot into the Barnes & Noble across the street from my office on Friday, though I vowed to not go in there until the men with machine guns go away. But if you say I must read it, then I must!

I also agree that her non-sympathy for Jason at the end seems right up the character's alley. I still think they could tweak the Ivy/Jason relationship just a little bit by having them both recognize that their night together was fairly meaningless and still keep the same basic storyline intact. Accidents will happen after all. Of course, at this point I don't care, I just want the show to come back, sympathetic Ivy or not!

[aspiringguy715]

Posted: 8/18/04 at 11:50pm

Good for gay mormon publicity. The things they deal with...

Anyway, I agree with the end of BlueWizard's post especially. He just brought light upon why Ivy is such an important character, because before I was wondering why she was there. I thought she was there just to create more conflict for these poor boys, but the foil thing explains it all. She may add conflict, but she's an imperative part of the love...rectangle lol. Shows how integral each character is to the story.

Bravo BlueWizard!

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 12:05am

Awww, thank you! You guys are so sweet.

I hope they do more with Nadia; she's one of my favourite characters from BARE, but I just realized how little she actually does in the show. She has that beautiful solo, but her role in BARE seems to be more a model of loneliness and being the outsider, which is why she's probably aligned with Peter (a relationship I would like to see explored a bit more in the restaging). Of course, I understand the lack of action for Nadia is a reflection of the lack of action in her life (she's always the observer, because "life is lived on other stages"), but it'd be nice to explore Nadia a bit more; it seems after "Quiet Night at Home," her story is given up upon.

I still think they could tweak the Ivy/Jason relationship just a little bit by having them both recognize that their night together was fairly meaningless and still keep the same basic storyline intact.

YES! It's a huge stretch to make us believe that Ivy actually fell in love with Jason, no matter how good the sex was (which it probably wasn't, given the circumstances ). This will also be a good opportunity to cut "Touch My Soul", which is my least favourite of Ivy's solos.

Bluewizard I will now be stepping foot into the Barnes & Noble across the street from my office on Friday, though I vowed to not go in there until the men with machine guns go away. But if you say I must read it, then I must!

Yay! I hope you enjoy it. Why are there men with machine guns in front of the bookstore? Is it because of the Republican convention? I guess they think reading is dangerous.

Updated On: 8/19/04 at 12:05 AM

[Trisky]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 12:27am

You and I are on the same wavelength Bluewizard on many accounts, especially Nadia and Ivy. It's funny because even though the story for Nadia never finishes, I feel like she's a very real, identifiable character. Even though Ivy gets much more time, she doesn't have that identifying quality to her. We've probably all felt like Nadia at some point. Not so much like Ivy.

I think the line that gets me is the "and Jason I still love you, (someday maybe...)". His response says it all "love me", as if it's totally inexplicable and insane. It's the "still" as if the initial love had been recognized and returned at any point, which isn't the case at all. On one hand Ivy seems to recognize that Jason has no feelings for her, like all the other guys in the past, on the other, for some reason she thinks she can change this with him, in particular. Why?

That's the reason it makes more sense to me for them to have had their fun, and then go on with their lives. Jason is already missing Peter in the first 10 minutes of Act II, he made a mistake he's moving on. If Ivy were to do the same, I actually think I'd be more sympathetic because at least she'd recognize what a mistake it all was and the consequences of it. As of now, it seems like the pregnancy is something she actually sort of pins some hopes on. That's a strange dynamic.

But I'm not the writers, of course that never stopped me from re-writing anyone else's work. LOL

Oh, the reason there are men with machine guns is that I work across the street from one of the terrorist targeted buildings in Manhattan. Fun times! Oy.

Updated On: 8/19/04 at 12:27 AM

[brunettebabe]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 1:18am

How can you not love wonderland? Adam's voice is so incredibly, I don't even know how to describe it! HOT!!!

[musicalfandukie]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 1:58am

i love jenna too..her vocals are amazing.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 2:08am

I agree with everything Trisky wrote. They should invite her onto the writing team!

I absolutely love "Wonderland". The best thing about the number, though, is how Peter/Michael plays with the advert card to the rhythm of the song (it's hard to describe - he turns it between his hands to the beat of the music), and shoots that radiant smile of his with the twinkling eyes.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 11:25am

WhatDoINeed, you don't sound like a moron at all....

I can't wait for Latter Days to be on video....


John makes a HUGE impreesion during the show and "Cross" literally had me in hysterics..... I was front row and right up there for that scene... it was VERY intense.......

The way 'Ivy' was written was a total bitch, intentionally or not... but Jenna manages to dig in make you feel some sympathy towards her......

Yes, the minor background things are great to watch.. I LOVED Nadia and Lucas rehearsing the dancing and smacking each other and flipping each other the bird...

i have no idea why, but at the end of Wonderland, I NEVER fail to burst out laughing when Mikey is sprawled on the table side ways swinging his feet... LOL

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 3:00pm

BUMP

I don't remember, what was Michael doing sprawled on the table sideways?

[musicalfandukie]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 3:09pm

I don't remember, what was Michael doing sprawled on the table sideways?

michael sprawled on a table!!!! when, where???????=P

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 3:11pm

During Wonderland, at the end, Matt is seated ina chair facing the table, which Lucas was using as a stage during his 'lesson' to matt and the other students, who served as his visual aids, were clumped around him on teh table displaying the drugs....

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 3:17pm

Ah yes. And Peter is the one who feigns dying, right?

What sad irony.

Updated On: 8/19/04 at 03:17 PM

[musicalfandukie]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 3:20pm

wish i could of seen that!!..lol

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 3:31pm

yes, that was Peter.. great staging point in my opinion....



**fans off Musicalfan**

[bobby_strong]

Posted: 8/19/04 at 4:00pm

I agree that is my favorite part in the show too. plus adam is just awesome. I keep trying to learn all the words to the rap but im missing some, I am getting better though!