Bette's "Gypsy"
Bette's "Gypsy"
#1Bette's "Gypsy"
Posted: 11/26/11 at 6:22pmIs on "Ovation" right now if anyone is interested. Started about 5 I just now saw it.
#2Bette's "Gypsy"
Posted: 11/26/11 at 6:48pm
I'd rather see Bernadette's GYPSY. 
"I'm the swell swab on the poop deck."
#3Bette's
Posted: 11/26/11 at 7:37pmI never saw Bette's version, only the film from 1962 with Rosalind Russell and Natalie Wood. But I thought Rosalind's Mama Rose was all wrong; she played her as too much of a fast talker and didn't seem ruthless enough, in my opinion.
"I'm the swell swab on the poop deck."
Gaveston2
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/11
#6Bette's
Posted: 11/27/11 at 12:43am
How can anyone prefer Bette's Gypsy to Rosalind Russel? It boggles the mind
Bette had no character development and chose to play herself.
What should have been a tour de force for Bette proved a real disappointment. Bette did very little to make her Rose work.
She proved one of the worst Rose's ever..
#7Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 1:01am
I loved Bette's Rose. The TV movie is a little stagebound, but the performances are excellent.
People throw around that she-only-played-herself meme, but it's essentially a meaningless trope that can be used against anyone with a larger-than-life persona. Every performer always plays him- or herself, and once the performer is well enough known, detractors can say, "Oh, he's only playing himself."
"Patti just played herself." "Bernadette just played herself." "Merman just played herself." No. They ALL played Rose. You just didn't like Bette's performance. Fine. I didn't like Bernadette's.
But let's declare a moratorium on that tired phrase "She just played herself."
#8Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 1:03am
I also love Bette's Rose. I think she's makes a significantly larger impact that Bernadette's whiny Rose.
And goldenboy, Rosalind was, for lack of a better word, too mellow for my taste. I like Bette's consistent intensity.
#9Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 1:21amWhat's not to like about Bernadette's Mama Rose? Out of all the actresses who have played her, June Havoc said Bernadette's performance is the most realistic to how Rose actually was, physically and in behavior. I may be a little biased, but doesn't that count for something?
"I'm the swell swab on the poop deck."
#10Bette's GYPSY
Posted: 11/27/11 at 1:35am
PalJoey wrote: "Patti just played herself." "Bernadette just played herself." "Merman just played herself." No. They ALL played Rose.
Actually, I think Russell was playing Auntie Mame. 
Musical Cyberspace: a tribute to the musicals of Broadway and beyond.
Updated On: 11/27/11 at 01:35 AM
#11Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 1:37amIt is stagebound but it's nice to have--Bette is fine--no more no less--and it's great to have the basic staging and choreography (minus Xmas pageant--Grr Mr Laurents) intact and on film. It's pretty tragic too seeing how it was filmed, often I've heard through much pain on Emile Ardolion's part--what an amazing lost talent.
#12Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 1:58amOne of my favorite movies and Bette is far and away the best Rose I've ever seen (the next best being Tyne Daly).
#13Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 2:12am
But let's declare a moratorium on that tired phrase "She just played herself."
YES, please!
Elaine Strith said something perfect regarding this on Theater Talk recently.
"You can't lose Elaine Stritch in your performance. No actress loses herself completely in a role, unless they're insane. A lot of the reason you've been chosen is because of Elaine. If you haven't got that personality through any direction, good or bad direction, it's got to come through. It's how YOU behave as so-and-so."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWX6dxO4U5E
She is SO right. And it's a SHAME that she had never gotten to play Rose!
Updated On: 11/27/11 at 02:12 AM
CurtainPullDowner
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/4/04
#14Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 2:12am
I love all the Roses, almost;
Merm, beloved on the OBCR,
Roz and Natalie, I still hear their voices (or their synchers)
when I hear the score.
Angela, Tyne, Buckley, Bernie and the Pone (liked her at CC, on Broadway not so much)
Bette brought some great things to the role, her reprise of SMALL WORLD is heartbreaking. and she gets great supporting help.
Hart (ex-Harlette), Ebersole and McNeely are Boffo.
I'm glad we have so many versions of Rose to enjoy.
#15Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 9:21am
What's not to like about Bernadette's Mama Rose? Out of all the actresses who have played her, June Havoc said Bernadette's performance is the most realistic to how Rose actually was, physically and in behavior.
AMH, I understand that you are obsessed with Bernadette, but that doesn't mean everyone has to be. Even if June Havoc did say that, the truth of the matter is that we're not watching the REAL Rose on stage. We're watching a character version of her and her life. Gypsy isn't a biography of Rose the way that Grey Gardens is literally a biography of the Beales. Rose is still a character and, even though she is based on a real person, the strength of her performance doesn't necessarily have to be based on how much like the real person the actress is.
I found Bernadette's version of Rose as she is written in the show (regardless of what she was like in real life) to be whiny and irritating. And some people loved her. That's just MY opinion.
Updated On: 11/27/11 at 09:21 AM
#16Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 11:51am
bjh2114, I realize that not everyone is as enthusiastic about Bernadette as I am, and that's fine. My point was only this: if Bernadette's Rose came across as whiny, maybe she chose to play her that way because that's how Rose Hovick really was. I understand that GYPSY isn't a biography of Rose, but I appreciate the realism brought to the character (since I, like many others, find the story of Gypsy Rose Lee to be very interesting.)
Differing opinions are great; not everyone has to like the same thing. I didn't mean to come across as argumentative, but had to stick up for Bernadette.
"I'm the swell swab on the poop deck."
#17Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 5:45pm
Maybe Midler's Rose would be exciting and thrilling to see on a stage but there is something a little strange about seeing it on TV for me, something contrived and over-the-top.
e.g.
Some People:
http://i44.tinypic.com/k01rih.png
Everything's Coming up Roses:
]http://i40.tinypic.com/jru3c4.png
Famous dressing room scene:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2h5nvad.png
Of course, Rose IS over the top and it is a showy role, so maybe it fits. But still.
I haven't seen Bernadette's Rose and am waiting to watch her video at the archive, but based on an 'early preview' bootleg (lol) I can see why some might find her Rose annoying - she seemed to relentlessly scream a lot of her lines.....in Arthur Laurents' book he claimed she got better through the run. It doesn't surprise me considering how long she has been 'working' on Sally for..
When my goodbye post was removed: “but I had a great dramatic finish!!!!”
Updated On: 11/27/11 at 05:45 PM
Gaveston2
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/11
#18Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 5:57pm
"But let's declare a moratorium on that tired phrase 'She just played herself.'"
Thank you, paljoey.
Guess what, folks? Stars don't become stars because they disappear into the characters they play. That's what "character actors" do. The closest to the latter would probably be Tyne Daly, but even she was smart to enough to make sure she was still recognizable in the part.
And to say Midler "played herself" by comparison to Russell is absurd. Russell didn't get to be the star she was by reinventing herself for each project.
#19Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 6:38pm
Bette certainly has her moments in the movie, especially in her quieter moments like ("Small World", "You'll Never Get Away From Me", and "Small World reprise"), but her "Rose's Turn" is one of the most over the top freakshows I've ever seen. Even on stage, it would seem absurd. The monologue she gives right before the song where she's screaming all her lines and bugging her eyes out is just a little too one note for me, especially the "OOOOOOOHHHH, IF IIII EVVVVEEERR LEEEEET IT OUUUUUTTT!" part. It just cracks me up every time I see it. I might be wrong, but I don't think that speech is supposed to be funny. Yes, Rose is larger than life, but she's not a freakin' cartoon. You gotta give her some humanity or no one's going to care about her breakdown.
She might not be the one to fault. The director was hardly ever there since he was so sick at the time and I heard they did two takes of every scene (one: over the top and two: one a little more subtle/TV friendly), so somewhere down the line an editor or producer must have selected some of the more over the top ones to stick in.
It just seems like such a missed opportunity. I love the material, I love Bette and it seemed like such a perfect fit, but something went wrong.
I'm thankful that there's a nice, mostly complete version of the stage show on record, though. If they did one thing right, it was to keep it faithful to the text and not deviate like the '62 version, which brought in all those weird changes during the first act. Hell, I'll even admit that I liked Russell's performance more. At least it seemed like most of the time she knew she was being blown up on a movie screen and not projecting to the back of the Hollywood Bowl or something.
bryan2
Broadway Star Joined: 12/19/06
#20Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 8:31pmBette was horrible..sang it well but I expected her to star reciting lines from Ruthless People She was Bett all the way thru...the rest were quite good I thought
Miranda3
Featured Actor Joined: 8/20/11
#22Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 8:41pmInteresting unrealized possibility for Bette's "Gypsy": When first reading about the "Clear Day" revival, and replaying the OBCR for the first time in a few years, I Googled Barbara Harris to find out what had become of her. One of the sources I found during that search, and I can't find it again now, said that Harris' "quirkiness" had cost her several roles, including one in Bette's "Gypsy". I speculate that this would have been the Tessie Tura (sp?) role. I would love to have seen her in that production, or ANY production of anything, for that matter. Viva quirkiness!
Gaveston2
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/11
#23Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 9:04pmHow odd, Miranda. I can't think of any other role that Harris would have done, but one would think "quirkiness" would be a plus for Tessie. (Marilyn Cooper played the role with Angela Lansbury in a Florida production I worked. Coop, God love her, pretty much wrote the book on "quirky".)
#24Bette's 'Gypsy'
Posted: 11/27/11 at 9:09pmI'd heard about Barbara Harris in Gypsy. I do believe the role she was supposed to play was Tessie, but, depending on who you ask or what site you read, she was either intimidated by Bette or Bette was intimidated by her and she jumped ship. Such a shame! She would have killed that role. I love that woman!
Videos