Biggest Broadway advance?

[leefowler]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 12:30pm

Here's a question for all of you...what Broadway show had the biggest advance sales in history?

[orchajaws]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 12:32pm

While I am not totally positive, I believe that it was "The Odd Couple."

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 12:38pm

That's a very hard question to answer, given how ticket prices have so vastly increased in the last couple of decades. For instance while both Spamalot and The Producers had advances of over $20 million, given that tickets cost $100 a piece (The Producers was the first show to go to that price -- on the day the rave reviews came out incidentally), those advances are not as impressive as some of the blockbuster shows of the 80s which had a top price of around $40-50.

Adjusted for inflation and counting actual numbers of ticket sales (and not just the gross dollar amount), I'd guess that, due to a year's worth of hype from their earlier London productions, Cats and Phantom probably had the biggest advances in history.

Updated On: 8/19/06 at 12:38 PM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 12:43pm

Also add Miss Saigon and Les Mis to that list.

Odd Couple wasn't even close since it was only selling for a limited engagement, not an open-ended run. Its advance was in the $10 million vicinity (which actually might be a record for the nonmusical category).

Updated On: 8/19/06 at 12:43 PM

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 12:56pm

Margo, I think I read in Broadway: the American Musical that Miss Saigon had the largest advance in hisotry.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 1:01pm

That was probably true up to that time in terms of pure dollar amount (the top ticket price for Saigon was about $10 more than for Cats when it opened).

I would love for somebody to come up with a list only takes into account actual numbers of tickets sold and not the dollar amount, since ticket prices go up every other year it seems. And now with premium tickets going for $250 to 400 a piece, it's impossible to compare today's box office records and advance sales records with those from the past.

[Al Dente]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 4:14pm

Didn't Saturday Night Fever have some astronomical advance, something around 20 million if memory serves?

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 4:19pm

Yes, and it all dried up once the reviews came out. $20 million isn't really a lot of money these days once you take into account expenses and if you get bad reviews that end up greatly diminishing new sales (especially group sales). $20 million by itself (spread over say 6 months) will only keep a show afloat for a few months and is why Saturday Night Fever ended up losing millions in by the time it closed after about a year.

Updated On: 8/19/06 at 04:19 PM

[ruprecht]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 4:24pm

I was always under the impression that it *was* the advance that kept SNF running as long as it did in that cavern, the Minskoff.

[orchajaws]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 5:15pm

That was it...."Odd Couple" had the largest nonmusical advance.

[BroadwayRandy0711]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 9:46pm

What recent show/shows never made their advance back that are now closed?

Are there shows currently out there that have not made their advance back yet?

Was Jersey Boys given a large advance?

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 10:05pm

???

I think you're confusing "advance" (ie advance ticket sales) with "investment" or "capitalization."

You don't "make back" your advance. Your advance is the amount of money you've already taken in in group and individual sales for future performances. Certain heavily hyped shows like Spamalot, The Producers, Miss Saigon etc..... sold over $20 million worth of tickets before they even opened. And hit shows often have advances even greater than that once they've opened. THAT'S what we're discussing.

Jersey Boys wasn't particularly hyped before opening and its advance wasn't particularly large (or at least wasn't in the category of Spamalot or The Producers). Since the reviews came out and strong word of mouth spread, however, its advance is currently among the highest on Broadway (I don't know the figure, but I would guess it's over $20 million at this point).

"Investment" or "capitalization" is how much money was raised by the producers to open the show to begin with and used to pay for everything from the sets and costumes to advertising to insurance and bonds to salaries for cast and crew etc...... For musicals, this amount is often over $10 million (Wicked was $14 million and certain Disney shows are rumored to have cost even more than that) and that amount must be paid back to investors before a show is considered profitable.

Once a show is running, any money made beyond its weekly expenses (which can be $600,000+ per week) goes towards paying down its capitalization. It can take months or even years to for a show to recoup that initial cost (smaller shows like Spelling Bee and Avenue Q took less than 6 months; Wicked took 14 months). Most shows (about two-thirds), however never make their money back and end up closing at a loss (Dirty Rotten Scoundrels is a recent example which will close in a couple of weeks after playing over 600 performances having only paid back roughly 75-80% of its initial capitalization). Some shows even run longer without making their money back (the recent 42nd Street revival ran 4 and a half years and closed at a loss).

Hope that answers your question.

Updated On: 8/19/06 at 10:05 PM

[mikem]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 10:34pm

According to the Miss Saigon book, it had an advance of $25 million at the time of the Jonathan Pryce-Equity controversy. It was definitely the record at the time, and I think it might still stand for a pre-opening advance. (According to articles online, The Producers and Spamalot both opened with advances of around $17 - 18 million, although both had substantially higher advances at some point after the show opened.)

According to an article in Dec 2005 in the Washington Post, Wicked had an advance of $31.5 million -- given the rapid rise in ticket prices, I'm guessing that Wicked has the highest advance in Broadway history.

[BroadwayRandy0711]

Posted: 8/20/06 at 1:11am

I did get them confused, thank you for clarifying the difference. I find this topic just fascinating how investors take big risks in order to back something they fill strongly about.