Bootleg/Filming Shows Discussion — Page 4

qolbinau said: "In some cases, such as Carrie, bootlegs are the only reason the show survived and had a second life. In the 2011 'pre-off-broadway preview' night where the creators thanked Betty Buckley for her performance, the audience clapped. I'd say not evenhalf of those people actually see Betty Buckley in the role.

If people use bootlegs as an alternative to actually seeing a show (and could afford to go otherwise) I see it as a problem, that's not for me though. The quality just isn't high enough, I have to see a show live.

That said, one of the few shows I listen to a bootleg of that I couldn't see is Betty Buckley in Dear World, but I make no apologies. I love that I can listen to Betty Buckley in the role.


Last, I would be interested to know how much people here who complain about bootlegs also spend on the actual theatre tickets - sorry but you can't get on a high horse that bootlegs involve stealing or don't supporttheatre if you frequently pay less than full price."

I do kvetch about bootlegs, as I am the OP. So I will say this; I have to admit I rarely pay full price. I use discounts from websites like BroadwayBox, and rush, occasionally lotteries but less so these days because with only one source of steady income, I can't afford it right now. But it's never, ever gotten to a point where I've been so self centered that I've put myself before the actors, before everyone who has worked so hard on a show, and recorded it.

Why do you think it's not stealing? You are illegally taking someones work. You are capturing their work for your own pleasure of listening to it over and over again, when theater is meant to be a special experience. It's not for you to decide that you can take that experience and lessen it, cheapen it by recording it illegally. And for people who say, "well I wouldn't have discovered [x] show if it wasn't for a bootleg!", I bet you tons of actors you love started off in community theater productions. So those are nothing to sneer at and say, well Broadway or the West End is my only hope!! Think again. There are theatrical gems to be found everywhere.

LizzieCurry said: "Didn't Seth Rudetsky also routinely show bootlegs at Chatterbox?"

Doesn’t make them any less illegal to film. People say oh actors post clips so it’s okay...no. For every ONE actor or person in the industry that does that, there are five actors who don’t approve/have a problem with people filming their show.

From that article I think this is SO accurate..

"As to complaints that such rules of etiquette could keep young people from embracing classical concerts, she noted that some pop musicians were also growing concerned by audiences who seem more interested in filming concerts than in experiencing them.

“The beauty of such an event, a pop concert as well as a classical concert,” she said, “is really being there, taking it in, having your own personal, really private memory of it.”"

This is so true. And theater is meant to be something you experience, not something you capture.

Rainah said: "Most the evidence I've seen shows bootlegs having a mildly positive effect on sales via word of mouth. The big issue with most shows is that no one has heard of them. The average tourist wants to see a show but has never heard most of the titles, they shrug and pick chicago because hey that was a good movie. In terms of sales, I find it similar to a pro sports game. Watching it live in the stadium is a vastly different experience than at home on your tv, and the people who shell out to see it live probably watch a lot of sports on tv."

I completely agree with this. Other arguments about bootlegs aside (theatre etiquette, intellectual property, etc.) I've never come across anyone who has seen a low quality shaky bootleg of a show and gone "Well, that's it, now I don't want to see it live anymore."

In my experience (i.e. the chaos of the Tumblr musical theatre fandom) most people who watch bootlegs fall into a select number of categories. There are people who watch shows that have already closed or casts that have already departed. There are people who are huge fans of particular understudies and who wouldn't be able to guarantee seeing them live in a role (DEH had, I think, a fun response to this when they posted an official video of Michael Lee Brown singing Sincerely, Me as all the roles he covers). There are people who have already seen a show and want to relive the experience, which, sure, brings up the "live theatre is meant to be ephemeral" argument, but I don't think it's necessarily the greatest evil in the world. And there are people who wouldn't be able to see a show live anyway due to financial / geographic / time constraints (and for some people and some shows just waiting until they can go just isn't an option).

So yeah, I completely agree - and to carry on the flip side of your sports analogy, most people who watch a lot of sports on TV really want to go to a sports game live, and if a team they like is playing near them and they can afford tickets and get to the game they're almost certainly going to go even if they've seen them play on TV a billion times.

It's a very complicated argument, and I'm only mentioning one side of it and I want to clarify that this isn't meant to be the entirety of my argument about bootlegs. But I think the issue of why people watch bootlegs, and whether or not they take away from ticket sales, is an interesting aspect of this debate.

RaisedOnMusicals said: "ellbellthomps said:Some people do want bootlegs,

Some people also want heroin.

"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but bootlegs definitely do not kill people and ruin families/lives.

As someone who has addiction in my family, this is so far from accurate.

Do bootlegs really remove the beauty of live theatre or do they just supplement it? I've never really seen much evidence for the argument that people won't go to a live show if they've seen a video of it. For instance, I saw the Miss Saigon filmed anniversary production in a movie theater and even own it on DVD so I could literally watch it everyday if I wanted to. I'm still incredibly excited about the tour of that same production coming here in a few months.

I would expect people who really love the theatre to elect to see a show live when they can, as they must know that a recorded audio or video can't replicate that experience.

Updated On: 10/7/19 at 12:49 PM

LizzieCurry said: "Also, the "theatre is MEANT TO BE EXPERIENCED LIVE!" argument is so... I don't know, dismissive? Rude? Exclusionary? Are you also against pro-shots? A friend of mine who grew up going to the theatre with her mom can't do that anymore because her mom is bedridden for the foreseeable future, so they often stream shows to watch together at her mom's place. Are they both doing it wrong, according to the "meant to be live!" evangelists?"



If they're streaming bootlegs, then of course they're in the wrong --- but I know you already knew the answer yourself.

LizzieCurry said: "Also, the "theatre is MEANT TO BE EXPERIENCED LIVE!" argument is so... I don't know, dismissive? Rude? Exclusionary? Are you also against pro-shots? A friend of mine who grew up going to the theatre with her mom can't do that anymore because her mom is bedridden for the foreseeable future, so they often stream shows to watch together at her mom's place. Are they both doing it wrong, according to the "meant to be live!" evangelists?"

Then people don’t have to go to a museum to see the Mona Lisa in person-they can just look at it online. People don’t have to go to concerts, they can just listen to that artists music online.
it’s the EXPERIENCE. Sitting in a theater with other people and experiencing the magic on stage, as INTENDED. Someone felt they wanted to put something on a stage for masses to see, to experience. Not just so a bunch of people could perform it in a big empty space. It’s an experience. Not one that SHOULD exclude people, but there are always things people don’t get to experience when they want to.

So long as the filming isn't disruptive to other audience members (and most good bootlegs were shot without disrupting any audience members - and I should know, apparently I've sat very near a bootlegger once - more to follow), I really don't see the harm in bootlegs.

First, bootlegging isn't stealing. It's piracy, but it isn't stealing. There's a big difference: in stealing, a person loses something. When you record a show, no one necessarily has to lose anything: for example, bootlegs of shows that are long closed, whose box office sales can't go up or down. I'm not gonna get into the whole 'bootlegs help sales x hurt sales' discussion: both sides have good arguments, but no real statistical research has been done about it, so there's no way of knowing what really tends to happen.

And, needless to say, watching a recording and being at the performance are two very, very different things. There's a Cabaret bootleg shot at the very same performance I attended (it's easy to know because of the people who Alan Cumming danced with in the beginning of Act 2). Moments that I thought were glorious live don't hold up nearly as well in the video, and it's obviously the bootleg because the performances I'm watching are exactly the same performance I watched, and from a very similar angle/seat (and I didn't even notice anyone recording the show, so they weren't disruptive at all - which is more than can be said for many ushers and members of the production, but that's another story). But, by god, am I glad this recording exists, because not only is it a video of a show I love, but it's from the very performance I saw, so there's also the sentimental value. I know that this sentimental value is weaker when you didn't attend the performance captured on video, but it still exists becase you saw the show and liked it enough to watch it again on video, so you have warm feelings towards it. It may not be ideal, but it is what I have since I can't go back in time to watch it again. I'm very thankful I can revisit that wonderful night any time I want. Even though it's not as good as it was, it still holds up much of the magic.

Updated On: 10/8/19 at 09:23 AM

Sooo did anyone else get the email from Footlight Records seeking fan shot DVD-r of a bunch of shows now? Maybe it's not so much illegal but just keeping it till it's not so.