Caroline or Change in London

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 6:42pm

Any comments?
READ

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 7:47pm

I don't know if they teach American history in England or not, but won't some of the historical references, like the statue of the Confederate soldier or even possibly the Civil Rights Movement be foreign to them? If they do teach American history as part of the curriculum, I apologize, but it seems strange to me that they would do Caroline or Change in London, especially because it wasn't extremely successful on Broadway.

Well, I'm going to London this summer, maybe I'll see it if it's open.

[alwy15]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 7:49pm

i think its wonderful since this is such an important piece, but i do agree with the previous poster--- im not sure london audiences would take to the show when they really seem to prefer andrew lloyd webber musicals (not that american audiences are different.... but will the show translate there?)

[Horton]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 7:50pm

Do you think they will cast Tonya in it, because I really think she was the second that should have won the tony (after Donna), I mean she was just AMAZING

[bwayondabrain]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 8:01pm

its hard to say
i agree with the posters who say it might be a bit foreign for london audiences, but you never know- shows might not be a hit somewhere, but might be huge somewhere else
i dunno
is this a limited engagement, or open-ended?

[BobbyBubby2]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 8:16pm

That will be very exciting hopefully for London audiences to see. Such a beautiful and intricate story. Let's revive it again



I wish...

[mrkringas]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 8:17pm

There is an earlier thread with much debate about all this.

Its a limited run at the National Theatre. London theatre audiences do not prefer ALW- its the fools out in the provinces who do

I do find it patronising to read comments saying that we wouldnt get "it". Last time I checked most theatre going folk were pretty well educated and especially the audience it will attract at this particular theatre....think Lincoln Centre or the Public.

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 8:30pm

Well, I said I wasn't familiar with the curriculum in England (since I'm from California), so I didn't know if they taught American history or not. So I'm sorry if I inadvertently implied that you wouldn't get it, I truly didn't mean to.

[mrkringas]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 8:43pm

My apologies. I didnt mean to be rude. I guess I just assume that because I am so familiar with American history and culture then you guys will be equally as familiar with British culture. My mistake

I see this as the reverse of Billy Elliot. I have read so many comments along the lines of "they wont get it" and it really annoys me. I like to think we are alll human beings and even if you dont know the intricacies of the 1980s I would assume that *best* in a US audience and let them see the show as written.

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 8:46pm

Too bad Anika Noni Rose would probably not be in it (because of DreamGirls). She was my favorite one in the show.

Oh, and mrkringas, apology accepted! :)

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 8:52pm

When Sondheim was first being misunderstood by most Americans earlier in his career, around the time of Side By Side By Sondheim his new style was worshipped in London.

A similarly emotional writer such as Tesori and a similarly complex author as Kushner will experience a lot of success in London.

[ChrisLovesShows]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 9:04pm

Patrons who are bright and curious enough to be interested in such a thoughtful musical drama will have no problem "getting" it. Students in the UK learn about the slavery, the American Civil War and the US Civil Rights Movement. Let's give our British Brothers some credit.

[ALWrules]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 9:08pm

Don't assume that Sondheim was popular in London when he wasn't in the US. Company, for example, lost almost its entire investment in London and only ran for 3 months. Side by Side was successful, but it was a pretty samall, Caberet like show. None of his full shows have done excellently, except some revivals. British audiences weren't "more sophisticated" and enjoyed him more.

[mrkringas]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 10:08pm

The original London production ran for ten months and 344 performances. Revivals of his works have been very popular over the years with theatre fans. Thats not to say he is packing out the large theatres but I think you will find that his shows have won a ton of Olivier Awards and sold out runs (in the smaller theatres that they have played)

Oh and look.... the current revival of Sweeney Todd originated in London too! Not all of us in the UK listen to ALW

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 10:15pm

Well, I mean look how well Les Mis did over here (Broadway). I mean it wasn't really dealing with a subject that we dwell too much upon in history class, but it was very successful. So it will be interesting to see how successfull Caroline or Change is, its def. different than everything else that's opening over in London (seems like they will be getting bombarded by new shows in the next year). Is the National Theater in the West End or is it considered like "off-broadway" type stuff, like it wouldn't be eligible for an Oliver Award?

And I think its safe to say that most Sondheim shows have been financial failures. It still amazes me that he is seen as such an icon, yet none of his shows have been all that successful (not bashing him, just stating a fact).

[ALWrules]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 10:18pm

Hey, I love Sondheim too. I like a lot of his stuff, just not generally as much as ALW's stuff.
Quote from Craig Zadan's Sondheim & Co. "Company ran in London for sixmoths with Larry Kert and Elaine Stritch and for a little over another two months with Britishreplacements, closing at a loss of 75% of its investment."
Sondheim has won a lot of Tony's in the US as well. The story in the UK is the same: a lot of critical acclaim and success in small cult venues, but not success on a wide scale.

[mrkringas]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 10:32pm

The National Theatre is a member of the Society of West End Theatres and thus eligible for the Olivier Awards.

I enjoy seeing ALW shows too but you really cannot compare his works to Sondheim, Jason Robert Brown and Adam Guettel. Sadly the latter two get even less productions over here than Sondheim. Although JRB sold out a concert run last December with very little promotion. Roll on Caroline, Or Change!

On a side note... you know that some of my fellow Brits on another board think that Wicked is "too American" for the West End? Again I think thats just rubbish. Theatre is universal.

[ALWrules]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 10:39pm

The Wizard of Oz is a worldwide norm; it will do very well in London.
I can and will compare his works to Sondheim. They are very different, but ALW is a better composer, and Sondheim is the best lyricist there is.

[BSoBW3]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 10:43pm

The Wizard of Oz is a big part of the American culture. The jokes - the "substance" of WICKED comes from WoO...unless they do some major reworking.

Catch phrases from that movie (WoO) are very big here, how big are they in the West End?

Furthermore, if you are on a theatre board, you probably have more knowledge of the different cultures re: Theatre than the average theatre goer.

[ALWrules]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 10:46pm

Dude, come on. The Wizard of Oz was a worldwide success and is internationally received as one of the best films ever made. Britons see most of the same movies we do, and the Wizard of Oz is no exception. Is it as big there? No. But are they going to get " Yep, you just keep following that road. Oh, I'm not very good at giving directions!"? probably.

[mrkringas]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 10:48pm

My take is that people are worried over nothing. The show has a universal appeal. However its been reported that its being "reworked" for London. My less theatre obsessed boyfriend loved the show on Broadway and laughed at all the jokes

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 1/25/06 at 11:58pm

I'm guessing if the shows fail in London it won't be because the Brits didn't get the jokes, but rather, they weren't as interested in show as we were. I heard that the "belting craze" has yet to effect London, so they might not enjoy Defying Gravity and wizard and I as much as we do. I would somewhat agree with you that "theater is universal." I think Billy Elliot and Mary Poppins will do fine over here & vice versa.

[BroadwayBaby6]

Posted: 2/20/06 at 12:57am

I just saw Tonya today and she said that she has NOT been contacted about doing the show in London. I get the feeling that she would do the show in London in a heartbeat...so hopefully the powers that be at the National will ask her to do the show.

[respeck]

Posted: 2/20/06 at 1:10am

Interesting. Thanks for that information.

Also, does anyone know why she back out of The Public Sings?

[thisdude]

Posted: 2/20/06 at 1:18am

I don't think British Audiences can relate to it the same way, but that doesn't mean that they won't come away with anything. It's a powerful show.

Also, The Wizard of Oz is very much an American Phenomenon, It has very strong roots in this country that just don't exist in other countries. I found this out recently from a few different people. Sorry to disapoint you ALWrules