Cultural Appropriation/Whitewashing

[eOpera89]

Posted: 6/15/18 at 11:07pm

[While the “The Wiz” has traditionally been performed with an all-black cast, Speer said she hopes to make her rendition a multi-cultural experience, bringing in actors from a wide array of backgrounds.]
-Press Statement from the show.

A professional Company is doing a production of The Wiz. Lees-McRae Summer Theatre in NC. They decided that the "traditionally all-black" (because somehow using the word traditionally means optional) show needed to have white people in it. All over. Not just Ensemble. Dorthy is black. The Lion is black. The theatre constantly takes roles written for people of color and puts white people in them. This isn't he first time. I've been a few shows with them (the college is my alma mater) where this has happened. There were 2 actual latinx people in West Side Story and since I was "passing" it didn't matter (I'm half black and half white btw.) They're also doing In the Heights this summer and I'm just very concerned and honestly offended at the fact that they don't see an issue here. They've been quick to hold to the notion of roles that are white to be white. Is there a way or legitimate reason to report this to the licence holders. Should I bother. Am I being unreasonable? I'm just not sure. Advice.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/15/18 at 11:20pm

Honestly? I think you are a racist. I bet you would be the first one to find Roseanne Barr's tweet horrendous- but think nothing of your own racism. You are as deplorable as Barr- and should be ashamed of yourself.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 6/15/18 at 11:50pm

This is not an issue exclusive to any one theater. It was only recently that “passing” was deemed no longer acceptable in the casting of professional productions. However, I think people are getting carried away with the whole “authenticity” thing. Are we to start doing Ancestry.com tests at auditions?

That said, white people doing The Wiz sounds terrible. But it’s North Carolina, what do you expect.

There is nothing to report. It may be irresponsible what they are doing, but unless there are specific prohibitations in the licensing contract, it’s not illegal.

[astromiami]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 9:47am

Contact the Dramatics Guild. They are very good about contacting the authors about possible violation of terms. They will keep you anonymous.

If this theater is acting within the terms of its contract, no harm done. If they are not, the authors/licensing agent will step in.

Do it NOW. If you wait till the show opens, there is a lot less they can do.

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 11:43am

BWAY Baby2 said: "Honestly? I think you are a racist. I bet you would be the first one to find Roseanne Barr's tweet horrendous- but think nothing of your own racism. You are as deplorable as Barr- and should be ashamed of yourself."

What?

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 12:38pm

The Wiz was intentionally created with an all-black cast. That was the point of its conception. It’s like making Flower Drum Song or Dreamgirls “multicultural” in important principal and features/supporting roles.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 12:47pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "Honestly? I think you are a racist. I bet you would be the first one to find Roseanne Barr's tweet horrendous- but think nothing of your own racism. You are as deplorable as Barr- and should be ashamed of yourself."

Clearly you need to reread his post x

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 1:10pm

Obviously, my point was that if you want to support diversity at all levels- people of diverse backgrounds up for all roles- then you cannot bar white people from being in previously all black productions. Stop color counting all the time- and be consistent. Diversity does not mean people of color getting a chance at all productions- but when it comes to white pope- no- you are not entitled to join a play that previously was all black. If you do not understand what I am saying- it does not surprise me. Seems like myopia and blinders are what is happening in this society now- and the culture wars rage on.

[Elegance101]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 1:18pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "Obviously, my point was that if you want to support diversity at all levels- people of diverse backgrounds up for all roles- then you cannot bar white people from being in previously all black productions. Stop color counting all the time- and be consistent. Diversity does not mean people of color getting a chance at all productions- but when it comes to white pope- no- you are not entitled to join a play that previously was all black. If you do not understand what I am saying- it does not surprise me. Seems like myopia and blinders are what is happening in this society now- and the culture wars rage on."

Clearly, not too "obvious." Everyone thought you misunderstood the original post because of how absurd your reply was. You need a good helping of education. Do not, for a second, act as though we are trapped in this old-fashioned frame of mind and you understand something deeper about race because that is absolutely not the case. The world has been stacked against people of color since the beginning of time. A "I don't see color" mindset is asking everyone to ignore history and ignore an imbalanced society that WHITE PEOPLE created. It's more troubling to ignore it completely because then, this imbalance will never be corrected.

So, turn off the message board, and go open your ignorant, ignorant mind.

[JBC3]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 1:18pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "Obviously, my point was that if you want to support diversity at all levels- people of diverse backgrounds up for all roles- then you cannot bar white people from being in previously all black productions. Stop color counting all the time- and be consistent. Diversity does not mean people of color getting a chance at all productions- but when it comes to white pope- no- you are not entitled to join a play that previously was all black. If you do not understand what I am saying- it does not surprise me. Seems like myopia and blinders are what is happening in this society now- and the culture wars rage on."

No. Full stop.

A commitment to diversity and inclusion generally is aimed at correcting systemic exclusion of under-represented populations from opportunities readily available to others. When it comes to theatre roles, white people are most definitely not under-represented.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 1:50pm

Of course I know that people of color have been underrepresented. I know that. I do not see why, however, a white person should be barred from The Wiz. It is not like this is going on a lot- so why do we have to make a big deal over one production. Diversity of course is aimed at including all races and colors  in productions- and that is important. But, if a white person is in a production or two of some show that was previously all black - is that such a crime that people get all upset about it? Not necessary to be so rigid. 

And as the Trump saga continues- we cannot keep fighting among ourselves. We need to be unified to fight the fascist dictatorship that seems to be arriving sooner rather than later. I see your point- I hope you can see mine. If not- not a problem.

Updated On: 6/16/18 at 01:50 PM

[MikeInTheDistrict]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 2:14pm

While I agree that white people in The Wiz is generally a bad idea, I don't think this qualifies as cultural appropriation. Cultural appropriation refers to cases in which people from a dominant culture adopt elements of a minority culture (for example, the Redskins football team mascot is an example of cultural appropriation) without permission from or respect for members of the originating group. In this case, the rights to perform this show are (presumably) paid for, and permission has been granted by the rights holders. If you go on Youtube, you'll find many productions of The Wiz, usually school or youth groups, with white casts. They're almost invariably terrible, but the phenomenon is common enough that I'm guessing Samuel French has made provisions for it.

Now, as to why casting white people in The Wiz is generally a bad idea: this show is like Hamilton in that it was conceived from the very beginning to be a story told from the perspective of PoC. The Wiz was conceived as a celebration of African-American musical heritage and culture mapped onto a familiar story. The music was soul, the language is "jive", the choreography resembled stuff you'd see on Soul Train, and even the sets and costumes of the original production poked fun at and paid homage to black stereotypes and culture. (Glinda came down on a giant watermelon slice/crescent.) It's a product of a specific time, place, and ethnic group: 1970s African-Americans. If you try to put people of other ethnic groups in most of the main roles, it ends up cringe-inducing (the language is already pretty dated to begin with; add in a white actor trying to pull it off, and you end up with borderline blackface). Modern productions have tried to modernize it or erase the show of its culturally-specific milieu, but in doing so, erase it of its exuberance and soul. Updated On: 6/16/18 at 02:14 PM

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 2:28pm

Well said. 

[BroadwayRox3588]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 2:42pm

Just a friendly reminder (because he will inevitably show up eventually): Ignore Dave. His comments don't exist.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 2:49pm

BroadwayRox3588 said: "Just a friendly reminder (because he will inevitably show up eventually): Ignore Dave. His comments don't exist."

LOL

I was surprised to not see him in here already...

Updated On: 6/16/18 at 02:49 PM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 2:52pm

While it sounds horrific to me, it really depends on what the rights agreement says -- and even if it stipulations persons of color, they STILL could have been granted permission to do otherwise. 

[Sondheimite]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 2:55pm

Send BWAY Baby2 back to the community theatre hell they crawled out of, please.  

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 3:48pm

You do not have to agree with diversity and inclusion for all based on merit- I really do not care what you think. 

And Sondheimite- go back to your post at the Gulag.

Updated On: 6/16/18 at 03:48 PM

[JBC3]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 6:43pm

Yes to what MikeInTheDistrict said so articulately.

[Sondheimite]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 7:06pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "You do not have to agree with diversity and inclusion for all based on merit- I really do not care what you think.

And Sondheimite- go back to your post at the Gulag."

I refuse to believe how you can't understand the stupidity of producing a musical that was created as a celebration of African American culture with white people staring in it.

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 10:55pm

I love diversity- just finished watching Love, Simon- where the gay white teen falls in love with the light skinned black boy- he could just as well have been dark skinned or Chinese or whatever. I just like seeing it all mixed up because we are all human - and the racial and cultural lines and stigmas we are taught I believe limit us. So, yes- as much diversity as possible- at all levels- as long as it is not ridiculous- and by ridiculous- I mean- a white person staring as MLK- etc. A few white people in The Wiz is okay by me.

 And if Dolly was white and Horace was black- that would be interesting as well. I just want to see color and racial barriers eliminated as much as possible. I do understand the posters concern about whitewashing some of these shows with culturally specific plots and themes- and of course- diversity does not always mean lack of discrimination- and I get that the poster thought that maybe the casting of whites in roles meant for other races might be come from a racist agenda- I cannot comment on that since I do not know the circumstances. But, generally- I think as a society, the more diversity and incision in all sorts of media is excellent- the conservatives and Trumpers might have the governing bodies- but liberals set the cultural and artistic agenda- so let's make use of it and use it to open up minds and hearts as much as possible.

Updated On: 6/16/18 at 10:55 PM

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 11:12pm

Well, considering the history of The Wiz and why it was created....imagine Love, Simon and instead of the white teenage boy falling in love with a light skinned black boy, imagine if some theatrical adaptation decided to change the light skinned black boy with a light skinned black girl. That's what putting white people in The Wiz is like for many people, especially black people. It was a show created by and for African-Americans and to carve out space in a predominantly and historically white-dominated forum.

Updated On: 6/16/18 at 11:12 PM

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 11:13pm

So what? Hello, Dolly was created for a white woman- does that mean Pearl Bailey should not have played her? Open up a  bit more and let the sun shine in. These things are not set in stone. Love, Simon would make no sense if he fell in love with a woman- because the show is about coming out. I think you are being a bit rigid.

 

When Harlem schoolteacher Dorothy (Diana Ross) tries to save her dog from a storm, she's miraculously whisked away to an urban fantasy land called Oz. After accidentally killing the Wicked Witch of the East upon her arrival, Dorothy is told about the Wiz (Richard Pryor), a wizard who can help her get back to Manhattan. As Dorothy goes in search of the Wiz, she's joined by the Scarecrow (Michael Jackson), the Tin Man (Nipsey Russell) and the Cowardly Lion (Ted Ross).

There are white people in Harlem, believe it or not.

Updated On: 6/16/18 at 11:13 PM

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 6/16/18 at 11:58pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "So what? Hello, Dolly was created for a white woman- does that mean Pearl Bailey should not have played her? Open up a bit more and let the sun shine in. These things are not set in stone. Love, Simon would make no sense if he fell in love with a woman- because the show is about coming out. I think you are being a bit rigid.



When Harlem schoolteacher Dorothy (Diana Ross) tries to save her dog from a storm, she's miraculously whisked away to an urban fantasy land called Oz. After accidentally killing the Wicked Witch of the East upon her arrival, Dorothy is told about the Wiz (Richard Pryor), a wizard who can help her get back to Manhattan. As Dorothy goes in search of the Wiz, she's joined by the Scarecrow (Michael Jackson), the Tin Man (Nipsey Russell) and the Cowardly Lion (Ted Ross).

There are white people in Harlem, believe it or not."

For one thing, I live in New York so you don't need to explain anything about racial demographics. You're being willfully obtuse because it's already been explained to you in this very thread why The Wiz was conceived, who it was conceived by, and how it was conceived. BTW, the original musical was closer to the source material and set in Kansas and wasn't not starring an adult woman playing Dorothy. And yet it was still done with an all-black cast. The idea behind it was to tell the story in the context of the African-American culture and to force theatre to see an all-black cast. And NO Hello Dolly! wasn't made because Jerry Herman and Michael Stewart decided to adapt Thornton Wilder's The Matchmaker to make a point about showcasing all white culture. They didn't have the same racial intentions that The Wiz has. If you take black people and an all-black cast out of The Wiz then you're missing the point of the The Wiz. Just like taking the gayness out of Love, Simon takes the point away from Love, Simon.

If you continue to not at least acknowledge why taking black people out of The Wiz  will be seen as problematic by various communities and how problematic it is that you are using "diversity" to ensure white actors get to do the show without criticism when it was created to make a point about showing black people and having a show that is all black people to demand some space for themselves and that space coming from them making their own material (which is the typical answer people have against color-blind casting or anachronistic casting saying if you want more POC in tv, film, and stage them make your own damn projects) then there's really no point in continuing this conversation because you simply refuse to get it. And I used "white actors" specifically because it's clear from your previous posts that for all your talking about color-blind casting and "diversity" you really mean just to open opportunities for white actors since those are the ones you are mentioning specifically.

Now, if you said with the trend of colorblind casting happening for a few decades, with non-white people playing roles that were traditionally cast with white actors, and how casting in 2018 isn't perfect but it has made some progress since the 1970s, then maybe we're in a place where we can have a production of The Wiz with some non-black people since the show's plot itself isn't specifically about black people and black music is such a big part of mainstream culture that people of all races have been raised by it these days. Also, maybe have multiple races represented would make the message stronger or at least broader, then I think your point would have been respected a lot more and much better received. Not that everybody would agree with it because I do believe blackness is the essence of The Wiz, but at least you would have acknowledged people's points and why people feel iffy about taking black people out of the show to make room for white people. In fact, I believe the 2006 La Jolla production had a color-blind cast and focused on The Wiz about inclusion and that there were script changes to make the message broader. I think that's a reasonable discussion to have.

Instead, you decided to call the original poster a racist, which is a reverse-racism tactic nobody in this thread fell for, and continued to sprout some condescending posts in this thread about Trump and you having better strategies than people who are actively targeted, and "letting the sunshine in". A lot of your posts really do show you are ignorant of this show and why it was made and why some POC and those more in-tuned to modern, contemporary race issues (which have been more shaped by minorities than it has in the past) would have the same issues the OP has.

Also, speaking of condescending posts where you are "teaching" or "explaining" to us why your way is better than everybody else's...not discussing, but essentially demanding black people to take one of the very few shows out of literally hundreds that was created to give them a voice where they don't have to appease or share space to do that very thing and then call them racist or rigid or being anti-diversity for responding negatively is actually a classic strategy in the racist playbook. And NO I am not calling you racist, it's just people who have been studying these things recognize these things as subtle and covert things that undermine their progress and overtaking the movement and conversation from people who are much more directly affected.

Updated On: 6/17/18 at 11:58 PM

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 6/17/18 at 12:42am

Not going to waste my time with a comment- believe what you like- and enjoy life.

Updated On: 6/17/18 at 12:42 AM