#51
Posted: 4/11/10 at 12:41pm
I really hope and think Kitt will win Orchestrations. The orchestrations in IDIOT were one of my favorite things about the show.
Do you think "The Addams Family" has any chance of snagging Tonys? — Page 3
#52
Posted: 4/11/10 at 12:55pm
Tazber, American Idiot could concievably be eligible for Best Score because the Green Day guys have said that they always hoped it would be staged at some point. There's also the precedent of Tommy winning even though that album had been out for 24 years.
Fela! and Come Fly Away are not comparable. If Fela Kuti had made an album telling about his life (including the same music in the same spots that is used in the show) or if Frank Sinatra had made an album called Come Fly Away that told a story of four couples in a night club, then there might be an argument there.
Fela! and Come Fly Away are not comparable. If Fela Kuti had made an album telling about his life (including the same music in the same spots that is used in the show) or if Frank Sinatra had made an album called Come Fly Away that told a story of four couples in a night club, then there might be an argument there.
#53
Posted: 4/11/10 at 1:04pm
@ James885: Yes, it was in fact written with hopes for it being staged one day. Pick up a book, and preferably pick up "Nobody Likes You," where Billie Joe is quoted talking about wanting to have it staged - though, it has to be said that he saw it more in an off-Broadway venue than on Broadway.
@adamgreer: Yes, I know orchestrations are a completely different category Freudian slip.
@adamgreer: Yes, I know orchestrations are a completely different category Freudian slip.
#54
Posted: 4/11/10 at 1:06pm
'With you, bjh2114, about Michael Starobin, who's work I've admired for a long time, regardless the genre of music. But, I was just thinking, isn't it a sad commentary that one of WiCkEDrOcKS' "favorite things" about IDIOT was the Orchestrations? For years, we fought to have the Best Orchestrator included because, in a show that is really well done, one really shouldn't even notice they are there!! If you had time to think about the orchestrations, I can only imagine that the book or the music did not hold your attention . . . . :) ?
#55
Posted: 4/11/10 at 1:12pm
Thanks theaterguy. In that case I would LOVE for AI to win best score.
I wonder if the Tony committee will exclude the 4 songs taken from 21st Century Breakdown as they weren't part of the original concept album (although 21st Century Breakdown is supposed to be a concept album also, however unconnected to AI)
I wonder if the Tony committee will exclude the 4 songs taken from 21st Century Breakdown as they weren't part of the original concept album (although 21st Century Breakdown is supposed to be a concept album also, however unconnected to AI)
....but the world goes 'round
#56
Posted: 4/11/10 at 1:12pm
SayWhyNot. Understand what you are saying, but I have to agree with the comment that you can recognise and appreciate orchestrations. Casting my mind back to N2N, although everything about it was great, I must admit the orchestrations were a striking element and addition to the piece. Just my thoughts :)
#57
Posted: 4/11/10 at 1:45pm
There's also the precedent of Tommy winning even though that album had been out for 24 years.
theatreguy, that's not a precedent. It only happened once, and even then it was a tie. Besides, that was before the ruling came that to be eligible for Best Score the music had to be more than 50% original.
theatreguy, that's not a precedent. It only happened once, and even then it was a tie. Besides, that was before the ruling came that to be eligible for Best Score the music had to be more than 50% original.
#58
Posted: 4/11/10 at 1:50pm
It only takes once for something to become a precedent.
But let's be honest, if the Tony Committee realizes that they need a way to make AI eligible due to the scarcity of decent work this season, they will find a way.
But let's be honest, if the Tony Committee realizes that they need a way to make AI eligible due to the scarcity of decent work this season, they will find a way.
....but the world goes 'round
#59
Posted: 4/11/10 at 1:54pm
It only takes once for something to become a precedent.
That is true, IF it is the beginning of a pattern or trend. But that was all the way back in 1993. That's 17 years ago. And the 50% rule was created specifically to prevent that from happening again.
That is true, IF it is the beginning of a pattern or trend. But that was all the way back in 1993. That's 17 years ago. And the 50% rule was created specifically to prevent that from happening again.
#60
Posted: 4/11/10 at 9:36pm
I agree with bjh1114, to some degree. The Tonys recognized the onslaught of catalogue and jukebox musicals coming to Broadway, so they didn't want recycled music to be eligible for Best Score. In recent years, they've ruled to allow certain scores to be Tony-eligible if they were 50% new. That is why 'Mary Poppins' was Tony-eligible (even if it didn't get a nomination); Stiles and Drewes contributed enough new songs and lyrics that they met the ratio. Ditto, for Glenn Slater and Alan Menken for 'The Little Mermaid.' The spirit of the 50% ruling is to recognize NEW work, not repackaged old work.
I realize I'm one of the few champions on this thread of David Bryan and Joe Di Pietro's work in 'Memphis.' To give them their due, they've written a full-length score (of over 20 songs), and they got a number of critical raves. Michael Kuchwara at Associate Press: 'Joe DiPietro and David Bryan have managed to create a dandy original score that is as tuneful as it is theatrical, the very essence of what a Broadway musical should be.' Elisabeth Vincentelli of the N.Y. Post: 'Bryan knows how to write hooks and anthemic choruses, paying homage to the variety of songs coming out of black Memphis clubs. ... This score works perfectly on Broadway.'
Look, we can debate this till the cows come home, but the only decision that matters is that of the Tony eligibility committee. If they rule 'American Idiot' is eligible, I'd say it wins the Tony. If they rule it is not, 'Memphis' wins.
I realize I'm one of the few champions on this thread of David Bryan and Joe Di Pietro's work in 'Memphis.' To give them their due, they've written a full-length score (of over 20 songs), and they got a number of critical raves. Michael Kuchwara at Associate Press: 'Joe DiPietro and David Bryan have managed to create a dandy original score that is as tuneful as it is theatrical, the very essence of what a Broadway musical should be.' Elisabeth Vincentelli of the N.Y. Post: 'Bryan knows how to write hooks and anthemic choruses, paying homage to the variety of songs coming out of black Memphis clubs. ... This score works perfectly on Broadway.'
Look, we can debate this till the cows come home, but the only decision that matters is that of the Tony eligibility committee. If they rule 'American Idiot' is eligible, I'd say it wins the Tony. If they rule it is not, 'Memphis' wins.
#61
Posted: 4/11/10 at 9:55pm
Spell check.
#62
Posted: 4/12/10 at 11:57am
Of course, it is entirely possible the Tony committee may exclude the category of Best Score if they feel there are no qualifying nominees strong enough for the prize. This happened in 1989 when there were four qualifying scores during the season:
Chu Chem
Welcome to the Club
Starmites
Legs Diamond
The biggest factor that year, I believe, was the fact that all four shows shuttered very quickly. The longest run belonging to Chu Chem with 68 performances.
Regardless, I think it may just be Memphis and Addams Family this year with Memphis taking home the prize.
Chu Chem
Welcome to the Club
Starmites
Legs Diamond
The biggest factor that year, I believe, was the fact that all four shows shuttered very quickly. The longest run belonging to Chu Chem with 68 performances.
Regardless, I think it may just be Memphis and Addams Family this year with Memphis taking home the prize.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#63
Posted: 4/12/10 at 12:36pm
For what it's worth Welcome To The Club has my favorite Coleman song (In The Name Of Love) and Legs Diamond is a guilty pleasure.
They should really just eliminate the category this year. Whatever wins will be a default scenario.
They should really just eliminate the category this year. Whatever wins will be a default scenario.
....but the world goes 'round
#64
Posted: 4/12/10 at 2:53pm
Starmites is good too, but it should never have been on Broadway. Welcome to the Club is not a boring score. Legs is a camp delight!
Thanks for reminding me of that fun bit of trivia, matty.
Thanks for reminding me of that fun bit of trivia, matty.
With Irma you gotta do something!
Updated On: 4/12/10 at 02:53 PM
#65
Posted: 4/12/10 at 3:05pm
Starmites really has a decent score for a family show and Legs Diamond is filled with numerous musicals gems (pun intended). I only listened to Chu Chem and Welcome to the Club once each and I don't remember a thing about them.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#66
Posted: 4/12/10 at 10:31pm
I can't see the Best Score category being eliminated. That's only been done once in its 63-year history. As in many Tony categories, some years are stronger than others. In the year of 'Big River' (1985), only 3 scores were Tony-eligible. (Does anyone even remember the others? They were 'Grind' and 'Quilters.' Interestingly enough, they could've filled out the category with the score to 'Harrigan N' Hart,' but they didn't. And yet, they nominated 'Harrigan's' book.) And then there's the season of 1995, where only 'Sunset Blvd.' was declared Tony-eligible, so it won Score and Book outright.
Both 'Addams Family' and 'Memphis' are legit contenders. I also think cancelling this category would not only be a slap in the face of those creators, but the Dramatists Guild and the musical organizations they represent.
As for 'Starmites,' I always thought that its writers, Barry Keating and Stuart Ross, got a raw deal when the Tonys cancelled their categories of Book and Score (in 1989). If the Tonys thought 'Starmites' was worthy enough of being nominated for 5 Tonys, including Best Musical, Keating & Ross deserved some recognition for that. It's not their fault that their season was especially weak. As you can see, the Tonys were not about to cancel Book and Score when only Lloyd-Webber's 'Sunset Blvd.' was the only entry.
Both 'Addams Family' and 'Memphis' are legit contenders. I also think cancelling this category would not only be a slap in the face of those creators, but the Dramatists Guild and the musical organizations they represent.
As for 'Starmites,' I always thought that its writers, Barry Keating and Stuart Ross, got a raw deal when the Tonys cancelled their categories of Book and Score (in 1989). If the Tonys thought 'Starmites' was worthy enough of being nominated for 5 Tonys, including Best Musical, Keating & Ross deserved some recognition for that. It's not their fault that their season was especially weak. As you can see, the Tonys were not about to cancel Book and Score when only Lloyd-Webber's 'Sunset Blvd.' was the only entry.
Updated On: 4/12/10 at 10:31 PM
#67
Posted: 4/13/10 at 6:26am
"theatreguy, that's not a precedent. It only happened once, and even then it was a tie. Besides, that was before the ruling came that to be eligible for Best Score the music had to be more than 50% original."
First, it does only take one time to set a precedent, at least speaking in legal terms.
Second, many musicals have concept albums out before they are officially staged and ever considered for nominations. Jekyll and Hyde had two separate concept albums out first, and that is only one example, there are several more (Les Miz, Aida, Ragtime, The Civil War all had concept albums out first).
Third, Tommy really wouldn't even be the one to set the precedent in the first place. The concept album for Jesus Christ Superstar was quite successful before it made it's Broadway debut, and if memory serves the concept album for Evita sold even better than JCS before it was staged.
So if we consider the original AI album to be a concept album, then I would say the precedent has been long set and it could easily get at least a nomination in the best score category.
First, it does only take one time to set a precedent, at least speaking in legal terms.
Second, many musicals have concept albums out before they are officially staged and ever considered for nominations. Jekyll and Hyde had two separate concept albums out first, and that is only one example, there are several more (Les Miz, Aida, Ragtime, The Civil War all had concept albums out first).
Third, Tommy really wouldn't even be the one to set the precedent in the first place. The concept album for Jesus Christ Superstar was quite successful before it made it's Broadway debut, and if memory serves the concept album for Evita sold even better than JCS before it was staged.
So if we consider the original AI album to be a concept album, then I would say the precedent has been long set and it could easily get at least a nomination in the best score category.
#68
Posted: 4/13/10 at 7:09am
I saw the show and i think here is how the nominations should go
Featured Actress:
KKRYSTA RODRIGUEZ (I loved her the whole show) and Jackie
Featured Actor:
Kevin Chamberlin (sp) I loved him and he acted it great
It will probably also get nods for Scenic Design, Costume, Lighting, Sound, Choreography,maybe Score
Featured Actress:
KKRYSTA RODRIGUEZ (I loved her the whole show) and Jackie
Featured Actor:
Kevin Chamberlin (sp) I loved him and he acted it great
It will probably also get nods for Scenic Design, Costume, Lighting, Sound, Choreography,maybe Score
#69
Posted: 4/14/10 at 4:22pm
So if we consider the original AI album to be a concept album, then I would say the precedent has been long set and it could easily get at least a nomination in the best score category.
See, this is where that 50% rule gets a little foggy. If Green Day's album was originally conceived for the stage, then it could probably be eligible (like the 1999 Aida concept album which later led to a Tony win for Best Score in 2000), but there needs to be sufficient evidence of that. The Aida concept album was not produced as an Elton John album, just like Jekyll and Hyde was not produced as a Linda Eder album. But if it was written as a Green Day studio album and then later adapted as a stage piece, it may be considered a jukebox musical. I would assume the same would happen if Quadrophenia or Psychoderelict became Broadway musicals.
See, this is where that 50% rule gets a little foggy. If Green Day's album was originally conceived for the stage, then it could probably be eligible (like the 1999 Aida concept album which later led to a Tony win for Best Score in 2000), but there needs to be sufficient evidence of that. The Aida concept album was not produced as an Elton John album, just like Jekyll and Hyde was not produced as a Linda Eder album. But if it was written as a Green Day studio album and then later adapted as a stage piece, it may be considered a jukebox musical. I would assume the same would happen if Quadrophenia or Psychoderelict became Broadway musicals.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#70
Posted: 4/14/10 at 5:38pm
<< Jackie Hoffman deserves a Tony nomination.>>
Totally agree !! Saw the show last night, and I felt like I went into a time warp, and was at "Young Frankenstein" again-
Really did not like it at all !!!
Thought the entire 2nd Act was beyond bad !!
Totally agree !! Saw the show last night, and I felt like I went into a time warp, and was at "Young Frankenstein" again-
Really did not like it at all !!!
Thought the entire 2nd Act was beyond bad !!
#71
Posted: 4/14/10 at 5:42pm
Featured Actress:
KKRYSTA RODRIGUEZ (I loved her the whole show) and Jackie
I can't believe we keep going through this. Krysta Rodriguez has absolutely zero chance of being nominated for The Addams Family. The only acting nom they're probably guaranteed is Leading Actor (which you oddly omitted), though I think Neuwirth and Hoffman will also be remembered).
Rodriguez, when she was even mentioned, did not get very positive notices, with most calling her "bland." There seems to be a preponderance of Guilty Ones here who think she's worthy of a nomination.
KKRYSTA RODRIGUEZ (I loved her the whole show) and Jackie
I can't believe we keep going through this. Krysta Rodriguez has absolutely zero chance of being nominated for The Addams Family. The only acting nom they're probably guaranteed is Leading Actor (which you oddly omitted), though I think Neuwirth and Hoffman will also be remembered).
Rodriguez, when she was even mentioned, did not get very positive notices, with most calling her "bland." There seems to be a preponderance of Guilty Ones here who think she's worthy of a nomination.
#72
Posted: 4/14/10 at 6:11pm
I can't believe we keep going through this.
That everyone doesn't share your opinion? Why? I think you're the only one "going through this". I'm still not convinced you have a magical Tony crystal ball. "Zero chance" of a nomination has about as much credibility as a "lock". Unless you are the majority of Tony voters typing each post a word at a time with a single computer keyboard much like the Murder on the Orient Express, you simply can't claim either. Just accept that different subjective opinions exist in the world and you might be less exasperated.
That everyone doesn't share your opinion? Why? I think you're the only one "going through this". I'm still not convinced you have a magical Tony crystal ball. "Zero chance" of a nomination has about as much credibility as a "lock". Unless you are the majority of Tony voters typing each post a word at a time with a single computer keyboard much like the Murder on the Orient Express, you simply can't claim either. Just accept that different subjective opinions exist in the world and you might be less exasperated.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#73
Posted: 4/14/10 at 6:39pm
regarding AIDA, it was staged as Elaborate Lives before the cd came out.
And I Am Always So Vitriolic
#74
Posted: 4/14/10 at 7:16pm
That everyone doesn't share your opinion? Why? I think you're the only one "going through this". I'm still not convinced you have a magical Tony crystal ball. "Zero chance" of a nomination has about as much credibility as a "lock". Unless you are the majority of Tony voters typing each post a word at a time with a single computer keyboard much like the Murder on the Orient Express, you simply can't claim either. Just accept that different subjective opinions exist in the world and you might be less exasperated.
Ok, then, let's discuss the chances of Tony nominations for Savannah Wise (Ragtime), Alli Trimm (Bye, Bye, Birdie), Cass Morgan (Memphis), and Elizabeth Stanley (Million Dollar Quartet). By your "logic" (and I use the term loosely, here), they also stand a chance at being nominated in the Best Featured Actress in a Musical category.
Ok, then, let's discuss the chances of Tony nominations for Savannah Wise (Ragtime), Alli Trimm (Bye, Bye, Birdie), Cass Morgan (Memphis), and Elizabeth Stanley (Million Dollar Quartet). By your "logic" (and I use the term loosely, here), they also stand a chance at being nominated in the Best Featured Actress in a Musical category.
#75
Posted: 4/14/10 at 9:24pm
The rules have changed since Tommy. I seriously doubt American Idiot will be nominated.
"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"
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