Does BWW MATILDA backlash Have Much to Do with KINKY love? — Page 3

Broadway guy, maybe you should see the shows first, though I'm unsure what Kinky Boobs is. I've been singing the same tune about Matilda since I saw the London production. I can't speak to everyone else here though.

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"Kelly, If i could see the shows i would in a heart beat. You are very lucky to have seen them already."

My point was that you're making some pretty strong statements on the shows, their quality, and their chances on this board for someone who has not actually seen either of them.

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It's so weird that I'm like the only one who understood the people just fine in Matilda. (MINUS the new lyrics of Miracle. Yet, I listened to the songs beforehand.) I guess they fix the dialects after previews?

Anyway, as for the score, I'm rooting for Matilda. Yes, Kinky Boot's score is fun and catchy and bouncy with beautiful 80s music. But, Matilda is's very unique. Yes, it's busy and too wordy like School Song. But, that's a BIG advantage because that is what it makes it unique. Plus, songs like When I Grow Up and Quiet are very beautiful.

I mean listen to Evetyone Say Yeah and When I Grow Up. BIG difference of the style. ESY is fun, but WIGW is just so beautiful and nostalgic.

Updated On: 5/23/13 at 02:50 PM

I wish I supported one of these 2 shows enough to be as partisan as the rest of you on this thread.

The sad truth is I bought into the buzz surrounding Matilda back in March, and sprang for full-price rear orchestra seats for me, my husband and best friend. The 3 of us went in fully primed to love it. At intermission we just stared at each other not understanding the bombardment we had each just endured. Repetitive, aggressive, monotonous in its look, performance and decibel level. We felt bludgeoned. Act II was measurably better (we adored WHEN I GROW UP), but the harm had been done and we just felt RELIEF to be back on the sidewalk at the end of the night. I've since found lots to enjoy listening to the cast recording (great music throughout although I can't admire lyrics that are so blithely and lazily littered with NEAR-rhymes in practically every verse). But if a show can't work and be understand in the live performance, then it's not a success for me.

Ah but then there's Kinky Boots, whose first NY preview I went into with very low expectations and was rewarded with having my very low expectations duly met. I've already clogged too many threads with my critique of the portrayal of Lola's sex life to waste space here. But I'm with Sauja who wrote: "a thoroughly unimpressive mediocrity that represents the nadir of Harvey's theatrical efforts and shows that many of my favorite musicians should avoid attempting to write for the theater." Mediocrity of design, of score, of play structure, of choreography (--of COURSE the entire company would show up for the finale outfitted in Kinky Boots). Groan.

In 5 weeks I'm back in NY to finally see "Here Lies Love", hoping it's the terrific new musical that 2012-2013 always deserved.

Updated On: 5/23/13 at 03:30 PM

"Thank you, KathyNYC2 for your patience with me! I feel like I have a better understanding of why our opinions differ, and even where we agree (apparently the sound system, or sound operators need to be improved no matter WHAT show is in that theater!)

Although you haven't mentioned it, I apologize for singling out your post to comment regarding patterns I've seen in others' posts."


John Adams, no need to apologize at all. You asked a reasonable question which I tried to respond to in a reasonable way. I didn't find myself singled out in a bad way - just that you felt my opinion was worth clarification. So if anything, thank you.

We do differ in that I am definitely on the Kinky Boots train...for a number of reasons. But that doesn't mean I am anti-Matilda. Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't think either show is perfect but both have a lot going for them.

Overall I think it's just good for NYC theater in general that there is a lot of buzz about a lot of shows... and in this case two specific shows. If it gets people to go see two shows instead of one (or even none), it's better for everyone.

Updated On: 5/23/13 at 04:21 PM

I have no problems with your using boldface, J.A.

Nor did I have really any problems understanding the book, lyrics or story of MATILDA when I saw it from the last row of the Balcony in the first week of previews.

I don't seem to have much to contribute to this conversation other than to observe that, like all highly fervent subsections of a population, the community of threads these two shows have spawned (usually in direct contrast to each other) has seemed quite at odds with most everyone I know out and about in daily life. This board has been overrun by a number of posters proclaiming MATILDA a pretentious bore and KINKY BOOTS the most joyous musical since joy itself was discovered back during the renaissance or thereabouts. Discounting the group of veteran posters who feel similarly (Kelly2, SoiT2, even After Eight whose opinions I can at least expect if not often agree with) whom I feel I can trust, most of these posters seemed to me to become most vocal about this particular head-to-head discussion. I've often tried to remain out of these direct comparisons as I've yet to see KB, but most of my friends who have seen both are flabbergasted by any perception that MATILDA is even threatened by KB in terms of acclaim or quality for the Tonys. Maybe it speaks more to my friends than this board, but it also reminds me that this board (especially when populated by a vocal contingent) is not the be-all, end-all of public opinion.

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I guess I'm some sort of mecha-human since I was able to understand pretty much everything dialogue and lyric wise in Matilda. I loved almost everything about it and was incredibly moved.

I enjoyed Kinky Boots too, but in the way I enjoy a run of the mill romcom. I rolled my eyes at a couple of the book scenes but overall found it to be enjoyable and worth the admission. No regrets, but it didn't even compare to what I experienced seeing Matilda.

I think the reasons are far simpler than most theories mentioned above. It is pretty consistent across the Internet that whenever anyone is really rapturous about something, and expects everyone else to have the same experience, it inspires a backlash from the people who didn't have that same experience.

Which causes it to then escalate further when the rapturous people explain to the non-rapturous why they should be rapturous, and the cycle continues.

Happened with Once last year, too. Some people thought it was the most touching love story ever, and others thought it was a snooze, and the more they talked, the more it escalated, despite neither side being incorrect about their unique experience.

The real issue is why people can't just appreciate the joy they have without trying to project and wish it on everyone else, when that will never happen. If you start with joy, why would you add frustration to the mix to cloud your joy? Just appreciate that something moved you...

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"I enjoyed both shows, I didn't adore either one. I can tell you which was more loved by the audience -- Kinky Boots. The energy in that theater was incredible...throughout the entire evening. Im not saying the Matilda audience didn't like the show --but I've never before experienced the LOVE felt in the house as I did the night I saw Kinky Boots. I've heard from many others that have echoed that thought. "

Agree with you Drama I went back to see Kinky Boots Wednesday with a few friends who had not seen it yet. BTW Billy Porter's preview voice issues are gone - his vocals were amazing. My friends and the audience were ecstatic upon leaving the theatre. Much talk of having to go back and see it again. My friends had parked on West 44th Street just east of Shubert Alley so I walked them back to their car. Matilda was just getting out as we walked up 44th St towards the garage. My friends noted the difference in the faces and buzz of the crowd. They said the street outside of Kinky Boots was akin to a party or New Years Eve all smiles and loud while the crowd outside Matilda was more like a church group pleasant but quiet, you couldn't get a take on their response to the show the same was you could at Kinky Boots.

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Because it's an entirely different show. Not all shows will illicit an ecstatic response regardless of how much the audience enjoyed them.

Plus, Kinky Boots is more loudier and energetic than Matilda. Matilda has its loud moments, but it's mostly slow and quiet. (Just realized that I had 2 songs in this :P) Also, Kinky Boots has a bigger ending, Matilda's is mostly quiet and sweet.

The subject of this thread is why there is a backlash against Matilda. I wonder whether the backlash is actually against the show, or against the attitude displayed by some of its supporters.

While Ben Brantley's review for Kinky Boots was indeed glowing as noted above, some reviews and press for Matilda contained what struck some as a tone of entitlement: the show deserved to win best musical, it seemed, because critics declared it so. Anyone who dared to disagree must lack intelligence, taste, or a capacity for being challenged. This attitude was trumpeted by certain supporters, as if repetition would confirm its correctness.

Well, it turns out a lot of people of intelligence and taste happened to disagree. Kinky Boots won both the Outer Critics Circle and Drama League Best Musical awards. (It didn't win the NY critics' Drama Desk award, but of course that award's nominators didn't give it an opportunity to compete.) Kinky Boots has steadily overtaken Matilda in weekly box office grosses and ticket prices, so audiences seem to also disagree. Tony voters may very well disagree too.

It's fine to have an opinion; implying that those who disagree with it are dumb, tasteless or shallow may have struck some as an arrogant lack of humility, however. Perhaps that is the reason for the backlash.

"The real issue is why people can't just appreciate the joy they have without trying to project and wish it on everyone else, when that will never happen. If you start with joy, why would you add frustration to the mix to cloud your joy? Just appreciate that something moved you"

Oasisjeff,

This is one of the most discerning observations I've ever read on this board. Joy untold is the magical gift the theatre can provide, and when it does provide it, what does it matter what anyone else thinks?

Unfortunately, as we see here time and time again, that is not sufficient for some. Why, I will never understand.

Like the control freaks who demand that everyone think like them. Perhps they are insecure, and feel threatened by differing opinions, or perhaps they're on a power trip to make everyone bend to their will. In either case, they're presumptuous and obnoxious.

Then there are those who simply take pleasure in trampling on other people's flower beds. Incapable of experiencing joy themslves, they resent anyone else's. Their only happiness is derived from spoilng the happiness of others. These are the meanies, the perverse, the spoilsports. We likewise see this ignoble attitude among much-praised and awarded "artists" who derive malign pleasure in sticking it to their audience.

My own personal philosophy is live and let live. Never can anyone else's malicious denigration of the shows I love spoil one iota of the joy I felt/feel seeing them. In fact, the pathetic attempts of those who try do so only serve to reinforce that joy. My advice to others is not to LET anyone else rain on your parade.