Follies 1987 London Production (and general Follies thread =] ) — Page 3
#52
Posted: 10/26/08 at 5:46pm
I'm in the minority here.. but believe the original book to FOLLIES is one of the best books ever written for a musical.
There is something poetic in its sparseness. It is almost Chekhovian in the way the emotions rumble underneath what is NOT being overtly talked about.
When the London production removed all that..the emotional wallop was diminished.
The London production sadly pulled its punches.
There is something poetic in its sparseness. It is almost Chekhovian in the way the emotions rumble underneath what is NOT being overtly talked about.
When the London production removed all that..the emotional wallop was diminished.
The London production sadly pulled its punches.
What great ones do the less will prattle of
#53
Posted: 10/26/08 at 6:17pm
"Dorothy Collins says the 'If you don't kiss me Ben...' line and then Marti Rolph proceeds to sing the entire song."
I thought perhaps you were right and I just hadn't listened closely enough. It had been a while since I'd listened to it. But I just listened again and I think you're wrong.
For one thing, it's very clearly Collins on "I should have worn green." And then when Ben and Sally sing together, whoever is singing Sally is singing very quietly and you really can't hear her over McMartin (who perhaps is purposely singing louder than usual to cover), but at the climax she gets louder, and to my ears it sounds like Collins. Collins and Rolph actually don't sound very alike, and the part that Rolph definitely does sing sounds very different from Collins.
"I would assume Dorothy would just mirror or mimic Marti's movements, the one picture I've seen of the number shows Ben holding Young Sally with Sally holding onto Young Sally. It seems like a strange idea but I guess it's better than having Dorothy struggle through the song."
That's the way the number was staged all the time. That's why it was photographed that way.
I thought perhaps you were right and I just hadn't listened closely enough. It had been a while since I'd listened to it. But I just listened again and I think you're wrong.
For one thing, it's very clearly Collins on "I should have worn green." And then when Ben and Sally sing together, whoever is singing Sally is singing very quietly and you really can't hear her over McMartin (who perhaps is purposely singing louder than usual to cover), but at the climax she gets louder, and to my ears it sounds like Collins. Collins and Rolph actually don't sound very alike, and the part that Rolph definitely does sing sounds very different from Collins.
"I would assume Dorothy would just mirror or mimic Marti's movements, the one picture I've seen of the number shows Ben holding Young Sally with Sally holding onto Young Sally. It seems like a strange idea but I guess it's better than having Dorothy struggle through the song."
That's the way the number was staged all the time. That's why it was photographed that way.
Updated On: 10/26/08 at 06:17 PM
#54
Posted: 10/26/08 at 6:38pm
I stand corrected on Rigg not dancing Who's That Woman. I still think that version is ****e.
#55
Posted: 10/26/08 at 6:45pm
Haha my mistake, I just listened to the first line and concluded as such. I know nothing about the original staging, all the information I've gathered from it has been from photographs but I tend to get into such a Follies frenzy that I answer haphazardly.
Also, Phyllis check your PM.
Also, Phyllis check your PM.
Tick Tock
#56
Posted: 10/26/08 at 7:16pm
The original book of Follies WAS brilliant...up until Loveland, at which point the entertainment-value quotient shot up, the conceptual-brilliance quotient shot waaaaaaay up, and the level of care one felt for the 4 main characters dropped off the edge of the stage. Zilcch. Nada. People were bored or disappointed or confused.
I loved it with every ounce of my body and soul, but each time I went back, I brought family and friends and no one except my lesbian cousin "got" it.
Except for Cousin Arlene, they all walked away left cold, feeling a little sorry for me and my "obsession."
I loved it with every ounce of my body and soul, but each time I went back, I brought family and friends and no one except my lesbian cousin "got" it.
Except for Cousin Arlene, they all walked away left cold, feeling a little sorry for me and my "obsession."
Updated On: 10/27/08 at 07:16 PM
#57
Posted: 10/26/08 at 7:34pm
Well I certainly get it, and I wasn't even born until about 2 decades later! My mom saw it as a child and distinctly remembers Dorothy and Alexis and wishes she could see the show again as an adult.
Tick Tock
#58
Posted: 10/26/08 at 8:31pm
Seeing Alexis was like getting intravenous adrenaline.
Somebody post that Time magazine cover of her high kick, please.
Somebody post that Time magazine cover of her high kick, please.
#59
Posted: 10/26/08 at 8:35pm
If I knew how to work my scanner, I would Pal Joey. But maybe I'll try to figure out how to work it just for you. It's a fabulous cover.
#60
Posted: 10/26/08 at 8:35pm
You can order this framed from the Time magazine website, which I just may consider...
Tick Tock
#61
Posted: 10/26/08 at 8:35pm
BNN beat it to me! Fabulous! Thanks! :)
#62
Posted: 10/26/08 at 8:42pm
I'd love to hear the audio where Dorothy doesn't sing "Too Many Mornings" too, but what would really be cool are Sondheim's demos. Does anyone have the tape Ted Chapin made of him singing at the first rehearsal aside from Chapin himself?
And PJ, when was Follies in Minature shot? Was that always Yvonne's dress in "I'm Still Here"?
And PJ, when was Follies in Minature shot? Was that always Yvonne's dress in "I'm Still Here"?
#63
Posted: 10/26/08 at 8:47pm
Sondheim's demos are usually easy to find, but the Follies (labeled as The Girls Upstairs) has been notoriously difficult to track down.
I'd like to second that Miniature question, as well as the one about Yvonne's dress.
I'd like to second that Miniature question, as well as the one about Yvonne's dress.
Tick Tock
#64
Posted: 10/26/08 at 8:49pm
I have almost all of his demos including "The Girls Upstairs" one (Which I'd be willing to share- PM me!), but I know there are more Follies ones out there.
#65
Posted: 10/26/08 at 8:49pm
DOUBLE POST! AHH!
Updated On: 10/26/08 at 08:49 PM
#66
Posted: 10/26/08 at 11:14pm
I wish I could tell you more about the provenance of the Follies in Miniature, but unfortunately the story I've been telling for years turns out to be almost purely fiction...perhaps as befits the subject matter.
All I know is that sometime in 1987 or 1988, Reginald Tresilian and I visited the apartment of a Crazed Collector of Broadway performers on audio and video. During the course of a few hours, he put on VHS tape anything we requested. Reginald requested Patti LuPone and received some rare Evita footage, most of which has since become available on YouTube.
I requested some Ethel Merman (and received the Mary Martin/Ethel Merman duet medley, rare at that time) and some early Liza Minnelli TV appearances. Then I asked if he had anything from Follies.
With great excitement, he placed a tape in one of the two recorders he used to dub tapes and told us what we were about to see would be like watching "Fellini's version of Follies on acid."
That 13-minute video turned out to be what I later called "Follies in Miniature." According to the Crazed Collector, it was shot on "Super 8" by a "some demented queen who knew the show backwards and forward and knew exactly when to press Play and when to press Pause so the whole thing could fit on a Super 8 cartridge."
According to the Crazed Collector, the Demented Queen then dubbed the 13-minutes with almost exactly the appropriate sound from a sound recording someone had made of the whole show. The off-dubbing, the blurry video and the jumpy cuts are what make it seem Fellini-esque and psychedelic.
A few years later, I found out from a mutual acquaintance that the Crazed Collector had died of AIDS. I don't remember his name, nor do I ever know anything about the Demented Queen. So many obsessed young men were dying in the late 80s and early 90s. With so many friends to mourn, it was hard to feel sad about someone I hardly knew, but the Crazed Collector had been so generous. I was sorry I never got to express my thanks. Hopefully those of you who are too young to have known what that kind of loss upon loss upon loss was like never will.
For years I would make VHS dubs of the Follies in Miniature and give them to other collectors or to friends as Christmas or birthday presents. Against my better judgment, one inevitably found its way to Sondheim himself, but apparently he was amused by it.
Jump cut to BroadwayWorld 2005. A poster who has since left the board gave me a DVD that included 5 files:
* "Silent Footage" (8:31)
* "Follies 1971 Dubbed" (12:51)
* "Dubbed 2" (29:33)
* "Boston Sound" (28:56)
* "TV Numbers"
I was gratified to find that the "Follies 1971 Dubbed" is indeed my Follies in Miniature. But the 29:33 "Dubbed 2" astonished me: It seemed to be a longer, out-of-order jumble...FROM THE SAME FOOTAGE.
Clearly the Demented Queen had NOT pressed Play and Pause for 13 minutes. He had either filmed 29 1/2 minutes and edited it down--or obtained someone else's footage and edited THAT. The 29 minutes included nearly complete versions of "Who's That Woman?" and "The Right Girl" (which I subsequently isolated and posted on YouTube) and also "Buddy's Blues" and "Lucy/Jessie" (which I keep meaning to pull out and post). But everything else is blurry, interrupted and incomplete--and very frustrating to watch.
The Boston footage is also frustrating--it seems to be a lot from the beginning of the show, but it is also a bunch of interrupted and incomplete numbers.
Clearly the Demented Queen, if indeed there was a Queen involved demented or not, decided that the 29:33 footage didn't tell the story of the show and edited it down to 13 minutes that actually do.
So the Follies in Miniature is probably the closest we'll ever get to the magic of the show--the Michael Bennett/Alexis Smith/Dorothy Collins/Gene Nelson/Ethel Shutta magic, that is.
So let's say thanks to whoever took the footage, whoever dubbed the sound over it and whoever edited it down. And let's say thanks to the Crazed Collector, may he rest in peace, who gave it to Reginald Tresilian and me--and to Crazed Collectors everywhere, who keep ghosts alive.
EDIT: Here it is on YouTube:
http://youtu.be/FQjULRtXp0U
All I know is that sometime in 1987 or 1988, Reginald Tresilian and I visited the apartment of a Crazed Collector of Broadway performers on audio and video. During the course of a few hours, he put on VHS tape anything we requested. Reginald requested Patti LuPone and received some rare Evita footage, most of which has since become available on YouTube.
I requested some Ethel Merman (and received the Mary Martin/Ethel Merman duet medley, rare at that time) and some early Liza Minnelli TV appearances. Then I asked if he had anything from Follies.
With great excitement, he placed a tape in one of the two recorders he used to dub tapes and told us what we were about to see would be like watching "Fellini's version of Follies on acid."
That 13-minute video turned out to be what I later called "Follies in Miniature." According to the Crazed Collector, it was shot on "Super 8" by a "some demented queen who knew the show backwards and forward and knew exactly when to press Play and when to press Pause so the whole thing could fit on a Super 8 cartridge."
According to the Crazed Collector, the Demented Queen then dubbed the 13-minutes with almost exactly the appropriate sound from a sound recording someone had made of the whole show. The off-dubbing, the blurry video and the jumpy cuts are what make it seem Fellini-esque and psychedelic.
A few years later, I found out from a mutual acquaintance that the Crazed Collector had died of AIDS. I don't remember his name, nor do I ever know anything about the Demented Queen. So many obsessed young men were dying in the late 80s and early 90s. With so many friends to mourn, it was hard to feel sad about someone I hardly knew, but the Crazed Collector had been so generous. I was sorry I never got to express my thanks. Hopefully those of you who are too young to have known what that kind of loss upon loss upon loss was like never will.
For years I would make VHS dubs of the Follies in Miniature and give them to other collectors or to friends as Christmas or birthday presents. Against my better judgment, one inevitably found its way to Sondheim himself, but apparently he was amused by it.
Jump cut to BroadwayWorld 2005. A poster who has since left the board gave me a DVD that included 5 files:
* "Silent Footage" (8:31)
* "Follies 1971 Dubbed" (12:51)
* "Dubbed 2" (29:33)
* "Boston Sound" (28:56)
* "TV Numbers"
I was gratified to find that the "Follies 1971 Dubbed" is indeed my Follies in Miniature. But the 29:33 "Dubbed 2" astonished me: It seemed to be a longer, out-of-order jumble...FROM THE SAME FOOTAGE.
Clearly the Demented Queen had NOT pressed Play and Pause for 13 minutes. He had either filmed 29 1/2 minutes and edited it down--or obtained someone else's footage and edited THAT. The 29 minutes included nearly complete versions of "Who's That Woman?" and "The Right Girl" (which I subsequently isolated and posted on YouTube) and also "Buddy's Blues" and "Lucy/Jessie" (which I keep meaning to pull out and post). But everything else is blurry, interrupted and incomplete--and very frustrating to watch.
The Boston footage is also frustrating--it seems to be a lot from the beginning of the show, but it is also a bunch of interrupted and incomplete numbers.
Clearly the Demented Queen, if indeed there was a Queen involved demented or not, decided that the 29:33 footage didn't tell the story of the show and edited it down to 13 minutes that actually do.
So the Follies in Miniature is probably the closest we'll ever get to the magic of the show--the Michael Bennett/Alexis Smith/Dorothy Collins/Gene Nelson/Ethel Shutta magic, that is.
So let's say thanks to whoever took the footage, whoever dubbed the sound over it and whoever edited it down. And let's say thanks to the Crazed Collector, may he rest in peace, who gave it to Reginald Tresilian and me--and to Crazed Collectors everywhere, who keep ghosts alive.
EDIT: Here it is on YouTube:
http://youtu.be/FQjULRtXp0U
Updated On: 12/1/13 at 11:14 PM
#67
Posted: 10/26/08 at 11:34pm
That's really a terrific and moving story and it's comforting to know that there are people out there who realize how important such productions are, and they go to great lengths to preserve them. If anyone is interested, I have the Boston footage (I never knew it was Boston, that's neat to know though) on my account on that site, an7iguy. It's hard to believe this show is almost 40 years old, and there are still so many people out there who are still fascinated, and people I suppose such as me who are "new" to this whole Follies thing and I am so grateful there are others out there who all have a mutual admiration and adoration of such a beautiful and haunting show.
Tick Tock
#68
Posted: 10/26/08 at 11:46pm
I just uploaded the Lucy Jessie as a single file. It's processing now.
#70
Posted: 10/27/08 at 12:25am
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Miss...Alexis...SMITH!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TxLGIdv85I
Alternate version at
http://youtu.be/AmexU4Qd0HM
(a little blurry--but still a wow, no?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TxLGIdv85I
Alternate version at
http://youtu.be/AmexU4Qd0HM
(a little blurry--but still a wow, no?)
Updated On: 10/29/11 at 12:25 AM
#71
Posted: 10/27/08 at 12:34am
I think I was the first viewer! But I know I won't be the last.
Amazing. And there was a lot of red in that number, wasn't there?
Simply breathtaking. Thank you so much!
Amazing. And there was a lot of red in that number, wasn't there?
Simply breathtaking. Thank you so much!
#72
Posted: 10/27/08 at 12:52am
PalJoey, that was incredible, thank you!
#73
Posted: 10/27/08 at 12:53am
Thank you PalJoey! And like BNN said thank you to all who have done what they can to save bits and pieces of the show for posterity.
#74
Posted: 10/27/08 at 3:12am
Oh my God, I can't believe that I actually saw that. I feel like I can't even describe the feeling of actually having seen that after believing I wouldn't. There has been such terrific Follies fortune as of late! I can't fathom all of these revelations and what I've seen and heard. THANK YOU
#75
Posted: 10/27/08 at 8:07am
Thank you. Thank you PalJoey and BNN. Thank you Crazed Collector and Demented Queen. Thank you everyone who collects and saves and preserves and shares. Watching that footage I just feel this wonderful sense of connection not only to the show, which I've loved forever, but to an audience that's loved the show for almost forty years now. It's like ghosts of those audience members are still with us, thanks to the magic of the internet. I absolutely love this thread.
Tickets From $89
Tickets From $123
Tickets From $72
Tickets From $65