#26
Posted: 3/30/15 at 7:51pm
What exactly is he accused of doing? Making an "unwanted sexual advance" by itself tells us nothing; it includes a wide variety of both lawful and unlawful conduct.
Harvey Weinstein Accused Of Sexual Misconduct — Page 2
#27
Posted: 3/30/15 at 8:21pm
"You can't go around touching people expecting it to be okay…"
"Not anymore, sigh…" -- Grandmama Addams
"Not anymore, sigh…" -- Grandmama Addams
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#28
Posted: 3/30/15 at 9:59pm
Even if it was "only" an unwanted come on or flirtation and there was no touching, he's married which still makes him at minimum a scumbag. And creepy as hell.
I like a good rhyme more than a good time
#29
Posted: 3/30/15 at 10:00pm
"All of that time in hell to spend, for kissing the married, the married men…" -- The Roches
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#30
Posted: 3/30/15 at 10:01pm
"he's married which still makes him at minimum a scumbag"
Yeah but he's always been a scumbag.
Yeah but he's always been a scumbag.
Butters, go buy World of Warcraft, install it on your computer, and join the online sensation before we all murder you.
--Cartman: South Park
ATTENTION FANS: I will be played by James Barbour in the upcoming musical, "BroadwayWorld: The Musical."
#31
Posted: 3/31/15 at 12:51am
"So they met at Radio City, exchanged emails addresses, she then showed up at his office and now she's crying foul. Sounds like a setup to me. She'd have more credibility if she released her name like the Cosby accusers have. At this point I could imagine she's a chorus girl who didn't get cast in Neverland."
I am so tired of seeing this victim blaming crap. She doesn't need to release her name because then people like you would simply tell her she's bitter or she deserved it for going back to his office or being dressed provocatively or being 22 and pretty.
Also, the rates of falsely reported sexual assault are between 2 and 8 percent. It's not impossible that she's lying, but it's highly unlikely statistically and people seem to think people (or, let's be real, women) lie about it much more often than they actually do.
I am so tired of seeing this victim blaming crap. She doesn't need to release her name because then people like you would simply tell her she's bitter or she deserved it for going back to his office or being dressed provocatively or being 22 and pretty.
Also, the rates of falsely reported sexual assault are between 2 and 8 percent. It's not impossible that she's lying, but it's highly unlikely statistically and people seem to think people (or, let's be real, women) lie about it much more often than they actually do.
#32
Posted: 3/31/15 at 1:38am
Very well spoken and important post, perfectlymarvelous
#33
Posted: 3/31/15 at 1:52am
Thirding perfectlymarvelous.
#34
Posted: 3/31/15 at 1:52am
No one has said she IS lying.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#35
Posted: 3/31/15 at 3:08am
The fact is people do lie about sexual assaults, and the accusations alone can ruin a man's life. We certainly see a fair amount of false accusations in the UK. Both parties names should be kept secret until charges are brought
#36
Posted: 3/31/15 at 7:06am
Well, at least Page 6 left Finding Neverland out of the mix. Though I think Riedel will take care of that later this week.
Harvey Weinstein accused of groping model’s breasts
#37
Posted: 3/31/15 at 7:44am
"The fact is people do lie about sexual assaults, and the accusations alone can ruin a man's life. We certainly see a fair amount of false accusations in the UK. Both parties names should be kept secret until charges are brought "
The fact is that sexual assault can ruin the victim's life (male or female, adult or child), and that there are vastly more unreported sexual assaults than falsely reported ones according to every study that has ever explored that issue.
The main reason why so many go unreported is exactly the kind of behavior that puts the victim on trial (sometimes literally) for daring to report the attack, and does nothing to the perpetrator. So it is actually pretty important not to make a habit of accusing complainants of possibly making up their accusations every time an accusation is heard.
If we could change that sick part of our culture, then maybe situations like the Bill Cosby situation in the US or Jian Ghomeshi situation in Canada wouldn't be able to happen, with complaints being ignored until they pile up to ridiculously high numbers of complainants before any of them is finally believed.
The fact is that sexual assault can ruin the victim's life (male or female, adult or child), and that there are vastly more unreported sexual assaults than falsely reported ones according to every study that has ever explored that issue.
The main reason why so many go unreported is exactly the kind of behavior that puts the victim on trial (sometimes literally) for daring to report the attack, and does nothing to the perpetrator. So it is actually pretty important not to make a habit of accusing complainants of possibly making up their accusations every time an accusation is heard.
If we could change that sick part of our culture, then maybe situations like the Bill Cosby situation in the US or Jian Ghomeshi situation in Canada wouldn't be able to happen, with complaints being ignored until they pile up to ridiculously high numbers of complainants before any of them is finally believed.
#38
Posted: 3/31/15 at 8:36am
I'm not on either side of this as yet.On one hand, she may be telling the truth, on the other hand, she may want a big payoff.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#39
Posted: 3/31/15 at 9:27am
The shame is that people will now line up and take sides without knowing the facts, and only two people know the facts. Yes, young actresses can be ambitious and opportunistic. And powerful producers can be entitled pigs who think they can do whatever they want with impunity. Beyond knowing that those two stereotypes are justified by documented examples over the years, no one knows what happened in this case. It's a classic he said/she said. My guess is that if Weinstein did what she said he did, it would not be his first time, and other actresses would come forward with stories. By the same token, if this woman has tried something like this before that will come out as well. And clouding the issue all the while will be the sensationalist agenda driven journalism of the New York Post, as well as Weinstein's powerful and efficient spin machine.
#40
Posted: 3/31/15 at 10:03am
"She claimed “he asked if [her breasts] were real,” a source said.
Weinstein then allegedly grabbed her breast, and she said, “No, stop,” she told police.
Modal Trigger
Ambra Battilana
Photo: Getty Images
She claimed that Weinstein, 63, a married dad of five, then put his hand up her skirt and asked her for a kiss.
She responded “No” and left, she told police. She later went to the 1st Precinct station house off Varick Street to file a complaint."
This is clearly a sufficient accusation of sexual misconduct.
Whether this accusation eventually proves Mr. Weinstein guilty only time, patience, and fairness and impartiality to both sides can tell.
As in any other kind of criminal accusation, whether sexual or not.
However, no one who was merely questioning what "unwanted sexual advance" meant was implying either that Ms. Batillana's complaint didn't necessarily sufficiently allege criminal sexual misconduct or that what she was claiming was untrue.
We simply wanted more information than was provided in the original post and noted that "unwanted sexual advance" didn't tell us anything.
What I don't completely understand is the complaint that those bringing these charges are "put on trial." Of course it's wrong for people complaining of sex crimes to be horribly and unfairly treated either in the criminal justice system or by the public.
But an accusation and the accuser's general credibility are "on trial" in a criminal trial. No matter what the nature of that accusation might be, sexual or non-sexual. The strength of the case on trial is the strength of that accusation. The issue at the trial is whether that accusation has been sufficiently established by the evidence and whether the prosecution has met their burden of proving that accusation beyond a reasonable doubt.
And how could it possibly be otherwise?
Of course, this is not to dismiss the checkered history of abuse by both the public and the justice system against people, and especially and generally women, bringing criminal sexual complaints. Only to point out that it is inevitable that the complaint invariably remains what is "on trial" should the case proceed to trial, and that part of assessing the proof against a defendant is invariably a critical review of the complaint including the complainant's credibility.
Weinstein then allegedly grabbed her breast, and she said, “No, stop,” she told police.
Modal Trigger
Ambra Battilana
Photo: Getty Images
She claimed that Weinstein, 63, a married dad of five, then put his hand up her skirt and asked her for a kiss.
She responded “No” and left, she told police. She later went to the 1st Precinct station house off Varick Street to file a complaint."
This is clearly a sufficient accusation of sexual misconduct.
Whether this accusation eventually proves Mr. Weinstein guilty only time, patience, and fairness and impartiality to both sides can tell.
As in any other kind of criminal accusation, whether sexual or not.
However, no one who was merely questioning what "unwanted sexual advance" meant was implying either that Ms. Batillana's complaint didn't necessarily sufficiently allege criminal sexual misconduct or that what she was claiming was untrue.
We simply wanted more information than was provided in the original post and noted that "unwanted sexual advance" didn't tell us anything.
What I don't completely understand is the complaint that those bringing these charges are "put on trial." Of course it's wrong for people complaining of sex crimes to be horribly and unfairly treated either in the criminal justice system or by the public.
But an accusation and the accuser's general credibility are "on trial" in a criminal trial. No matter what the nature of that accusation might be, sexual or non-sexual. The strength of the case on trial is the strength of that accusation. The issue at the trial is whether that accusation has been sufficiently established by the evidence and whether the prosecution has met their burden of proving that accusation beyond a reasonable doubt.
And how could it possibly be otherwise?
Of course, this is not to dismiss the checkered history of abuse by both the public and the justice system against people, and especially and generally women, bringing criminal sexual complaints. Only to point out that it is inevitable that the complaint invariably remains what is "on trial" should the case proceed to trial, and that part of assessing the proof against a defendant is invariably a critical review of the complaint including the complainant's credibility.
Updated On: 3/31/15 at 10:03 AM
#41
Posted: 3/31/15 at 10:04am
We weren't there. I just lived through 7 months knowing someone who was falsely accused of sexually abuse because his accuser was mad about something. The hell that she put everyone through and the time and money she cost the city, the police, the courts and their mutual place of employment was staggering...only to have her case totally thrown out.
I am not saying she is lying..I am just saying I wasn't there and in no way would I want to judge what happened without knowing all the facts.
I am not saying she is lying..I am just saying I wasn't there and in no way would I want to judge what happened without knowing all the facts.
#42
Posted: 3/31/15 at 10:05am
To this I say, "Innocent until proven guilty." And I mean that on both accounts. If he seriously did grope her, then that's bad, but we don't know the facts yet. On the other hand, if she's lying, then that's bad, too, but again, we don't know the facts. It works both ways.
"Was uns befreit, das muss stärker sein als wir es sind." -Tanz der Vampire
#43
Posted: 3/31/15 at 10:39am
I don't want to be accused of victim shaming. I know that there are real victims out theree but something about this is suspect. I know that Page Six isn't a credible news source and the New York Post is basically a tabloid but after reading that article, it is difficult to think that Ambra Battilana is a credible victim. According to the article, Harvey Weinstein is not the first powerful man she has made accusations against.
#44
Posted: 3/31/15 at 11:26am
Tomj1071, unless I missed something all the article says is that she previously provided evidence of having witnessed Silvio Burlusconi's famous orgies.
How exactly would that discredit her? Few if any people, including - if I'm not mistaken - Burlusconi himself, has denied that he had these orgies. And Burlusconi was convicted of sex with an underage prostitute at one of them in a verdict that is generally believed to have been just.
It should strike no one as patently improbable that a sexy Italian model would not have escaped either he acquaintance or the sexual attentions of Silvio Burlusconi and Harvey Weinstein.
How exactly would that discredit her? Few if any people, including - if I'm not mistaken - Burlusconi himself, has denied that he had these orgies. And Burlusconi was convicted of sex with an underage prostitute at one of them in a verdict that is generally believed to have been just.
It should strike no one as patently improbable that a sexy Italian model would not have escaped either he acquaintance or the sexual attentions of Silvio Burlusconi and Harvey Weinstein.
Updated On: 3/31/15 at 11:26 AM
#45
Posted: 3/31/15 at 11:35am
It's not going to help his play's Tony chances.
"when I’m on stage I see the abyss and have to overcome it by telling myself it’s only a play." - Helen Mirren
#46
Posted: 3/31/15 at 11:42am
"Also, the rates of falsely reported sexual assault are between 2 and 8 percent. It's not impossible that she's lying, but it's highly unlikely statistically and people seem to think people (or, let's be real, women) lie about it much more often than they actually do."
The may potentially be an accurate reflection of the rates of false reporting. But how could anyone possibly know that? How can there possibly be statistics qualifying reported sexual assaults as false or true when so many reports of criminality - of any kind, sexual or not - remain in dispute even after conviction, on the one hand, or acquittal, on the other; and, in many cases, forever?
Who determines what is falsely reported and what is not for these statistics?
Even if these rates were accepted as correct, 2 to 8 percent of accusers and accused adds up to a great many people, which if anything only underscores the importance of fairness and impartiality (to both sides) in judging sexual complaints.
The may potentially be an accurate reflection of the rates of false reporting. But how could anyone possibly know that? How can there possibly be statistics qualifying reported sexual assaults as false or true when so many reports of criminality - of any kind, sexual or not - remain in dispute even after conviction, on the one hand, or acquittal, on the other; and, in many cases, forever?
Who determines what is falsely reported and what is not for these statistics?
Even if these rates were accepted as correct, 2 to 8 percent of accusers and accused adds up to a great many people, which if anything only underscores the importance of fairness and impartiality (to both sides) in judging sexual complaints.
Updated On: 3/31/15 at 11:42 AM
#47
Posted: 3/31/15 at 11:55am
By the names of both parties being released, you end up with a trial by media or society (if the man isn't famous) which results in both parties reputations being ruined. By the time they are found innocent or there is no case to answer, it can be too late with careers and lives being ruined. Likewise, the alleged victim has been torn apart in the press
I dont agree that its ok for a mans (as is usually the case) life to be ruined just because its statistically more likely the woman is telling the truth, or that its ok because it may bring more women forward. There is no need for the wider public to know at this early stage. And lets face it statistics can be used to prove just about anything one way or another
I dont agree that its ok for a mans (as is usually the case) life to be ruined just because its statistically more likely the woman is telling the truth, or that its ok because it may bring more women forward. There is no need for the wider public to know at this early stage. And lets face it statistics can be used to prove just about anything one way or another
#48
Posted: 3/31/15 at 12:12pm
Being a multi-millionaire Weinstein is obviously a juicy target. But I have to ask what purpose would he have in bringing her into his office alone? Fill in dopey reasons here:
#49
Posted: 3/31/15 at 12:15pm
His purpose may well have been sexual but that doesn't mean that he did what she said he did in pursuit of that purpose.
Nor does it mean that he did not.
Nor does it mean that he did not.
#50
Posted: 3/31/15 at 12:15pm
duplicate post
Updated On: 3/31/15 at 12:15 PM
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