Jokes, lines, or songs that dont sit right anymore- Page 3

[Elegance101]

Posted: 2/19/18 at 6:31pm

"All I do is meeting persons.

I leave the color sorting to others.

It's just that for as long they are doing that they fail to look at the person. Which is a pity either way. No matter how much some of you on this board try to justify it."

Basically, "I don't see color." Yikes.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 2/19/18 at 6:39pm

Do you understand the difference between seeing color and bringing a certain color down because you feel you have the right?

[jpbran]

Posted: 2/19/18 at 8:18pm

Elfuhbuh said: "
Anyways, my pick is the "Bisexuality isn't real, you need to pick one or the other!" jokein If/Then. That's such an old and tired stereotype of the misconception as to what bisexuality is that it just doesn't need to be around anymore."

I think that's supposed to come off as an old and tired stereotype. The guy she's referencing demonstrates that in fact by being someone who's caring, smart and funny, yet who's also attracted to both sexes. Are fictional characters -- even ones who seem to be big messes --  not supposed to crack anything other than perfectly enlightened, PC and thoughtful jokes?

[faceleg]

Posted: 2/19/18 at 8:57pm

MrsSallyAdams said: "Rape is treated as a joke:Addams Family(though they cut the giant squid rape in the licensed version),The Fantasticks.Damn Yankees (The Game). Some productions ofInto the Woodsstage Moments in the Woods fairly rapey."

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but in the Fantasticks, isn't the "rape" more the old timey use of the word to mean an abduction? I know they changed the title of the song to make it less icky, but I didn't think there was an actual rape in the musical. Just the abduction.

"4. Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force."

[kaykordeath]

Posted: 2/19/18 at 9:04pm

After Eight said: "Msmp wrote: "I'd put this one in the category of intentionally over-the-top satire."

So if something is intentionally over-the-top offensive that makes it ok? We've had to endure too much crap based upon justsuch shoddy justification.

And asfor Book of Mormon being "satire," well, hardly.It's nothing more thanstupid, vulgar, juveniletrash.

"

 

I wonder how much attention you've actually paid to the end of the show. Ultimately, it's a show that celebrates the concept of faith. It encourages, on a personal level, empowering the individual to decide what to believe in, rather than falling into the trap of obeying a didactic organized and established traditional religions.

 

 

[lm121362]

Posted: 2/19/18 at 10:19pm

JBroadway said: "Surprised nobody has mentioned Avenue Q. A lot of the stuff in "Everyone's A Little Bit Racist" perpetuates some very problematic misconceptionsabout what racism actually is and how it works - misconceptions that are still widely believed (including by a fair number of people on this message board).For example, they use the word "racism" when they really mean "bigotry" or "prejudice." This is the kind of confusion that leads to white people crying "reverse-racism" - which is of course a fictional concept.

I think the song could have some minor re-writes and still work in today's today and age, especially if they focus on the message of "everyone has racist/prejudiced tendencies, and ignoring them or demonizing people for them is unhelpful" rather than "light racism is acceptable." The first angle I mentionedis PART of the song's message already, but it'sclouded by the outdated lines that brushoff racist behavior."

Ten years ago I used to find that song hilarious. Now it is not funny and even appalling to me. I'm not sure if that is a change of the times or just a change within me.

[Lot666]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 9:18am

Elfuhbuh said: "To whoever said "The Point of No Return" from Phantom should be cut, are we supposed to just not have any references to sex at all in theatre now? Lol."

The "sexual references" in that song are so poetically presented that one can scarcely call them "sexual". If anyone thinks those lyrics are overt or crude, they must surely not listen to pop radio.

[TerrenceIsTheMann]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 9:57am

Y'all got to realize that a lot of these things are INTENTIONALLY uncomfortable and are supposed to make the audience feel uneasy. They are depictions of imperfect human beings. The world is not so nice all the time, and it has only improved to the place we are at now. We need the reality of the past to inform us on the future.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 10:08am

Dave28282 said: "All I do is meeting persons.

I leave the color sorting to others.

It's just that for as long they are doing that they fail to look at the person. Which is a pity either way. No matter how much some of you on this board try to justify it."

Pretty sure that Dave28282 works at the Internet Research Agency in St. Petersburg.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 10:48am

TerrenceIsTheMann said: "Y'all got to realize that a lot of these things are INTENTIONALLY uncomfortable and are supposed to make the audience feel uneasy. They are depictions of imperfect human beings. The world is not so nice all the time, and it has only improved to the place we are at now. We need the reality of the past to inform us on the future."

Yes, which I already acknowledged in what I said about the DEH line. HOWEVER, there is a point where it takes you out of the story because it is that tasteless. You can have a terrible character (or a questionable character who says terrible things on occasion), but there is a line.

[Rainah]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 11:19am

jpbran said: "Elfuhbuh said: "
Anyways, my pick is the "Bisexuality isn't real, you need to pick one or the other!" jokein If/Then. That's such an old and tired stereotype of the misconception as to what bisexuality is that it just doesn't need to be around anymore."

I think that's supposed to come off as an old and tired stereotype. The guy she's referencing demonstrates that in fact by being someone who's caring, smart and funny, yetwho's also attracted to both sexes. Are fictional characters -- even ones who seem to be big messes --not supposed to crack anything other than perfectly enlightened, PC and thoughtful jokes?"


Ugh I am of two minds with this. As a bisexual person who was just starting to come out when I saw the show... I loved Lucas, and still do. I love how it's just blatantly said at the beginning, "Lucas has always dated men and women" and no one plays coy about it. Lucas is bisexual. Lucas is also fantastic and has two fantastic arcs in the show, and is really the second most important character after Elizabeth.

That line falls flat to me and always has. If it was meant to be taken seriously, it should not be there. If it was meant to make the audience disapprove at the character spouting something so ignorant, then the narrative needs to do a better job of condemning it. I 100% support characters saying offensive or ignorant things and I think it can be a very powerful piece of characterization, but the narrative needs to somehow drive home the fact that the character is not correct. Yes, a little more forcefully than I'd ideally like, as there are still a large portion of the audience who will be nodding along and thinking she's right unless it's made very clear that she is not. 

[Rainah]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 11:25am

In terms of jokes/lines that are offensive and outdated, may I present The Gay Joke from In The Heights


[DANIELA]
So then Yesenia walks in the room—

[CARLA, spoken]
Aha…

[DANIELA]
She smells sex and cheap perfume!

[CARLA, spoken]
Uh oh…

[DANIELA]
It smells like one of those trees
That you hang from the rear view!

[CARLA, spoken]
Ah, no!

[DANIELA]
It’s true! She screams, “Who’s in there with you, Julio?”
Grabs a bat and kicks in the door
He’s in bed with José from the liquor store!

[CARLA/USNAVI]
No me diga!
 

He's not just cheating on her, he's cheating on her with a man. Isn't that just hilarious? He's queer!
(Especially sketchy considering In The Heights originally had as many as three mlm and all were cut/made straight before the show hit broadway, and there are no queer characters at all in the final version)

[JudyDenmark]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 11:49am

Rainah said: "He's not just cheating on her, he's cheating on her with a man. Isn't that just hilarious?"

...It's a funny line in a song about neighborhood gossip. I'm not sure I see what you're being offended by in this one. (If there was some sort of slur or derogatory tone, then absolutely. But the line is pretty innocent to me - it's exactly the kind of thing those characters would be gossiping about.) 

The show also doesn't have any Jewish people, Asian people, disabled people, or Muslim people. Does that matter? Personally, I don't want to live in a world where playwrights need to sit with a checklist to make sure they're representing every minority group.

[Rainah]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 12:19pm

The punchline is that he's queer. That is literally the punchline of the joke. It is 100% possible to portray neighborhood gossip in a most tasteful way, even gossip about sexualities, when the narrative makes it clear that it's a bad thing to gossip about people's sexualities. 

There are no crude jokes about Asian, Jewish, or Muslim people in the play. There is nothing wrong with specificity, and In The Heights is very much stronger for its focus on the American-Latinx experience. For sure. But I do think something is wrong when the only time queerness is presented or referenced is as a punchline to a joke. 

(Though for what it's worth, I do sorely miss Lincoln Rosario's haunting and ultimately uplifting solo, I'm Out)

 

[seaweedjstubbs]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 12:44pm

^ Damn......if that offends you, I can't imagine what doesn't offend you. I'm a liberal black gay male and have never thought twice about that line.

One line from HAIRSPRAY that rubs people the wrong way now compared to when the show premiered in 2002:

AMBER: Tracy Turnblad's a tramp and she's ****. That's right, she's fast and slow at the same time!

The line is spoken by the villain of a show set in the 60s, but instead of garnering a laugh like it did in 2002, it makes people cringe at the use of the "r-word".

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 1:05pm

Rainah said: "Ugh I am of two minds with this. As a bisexual person who was just starting to come out when I saw the show... I loved Lucas, and still do. I love how it's just blatantly said at the beginning, "Lucas has always dated men and women" and no one plays coy about it. Lucas is bisexual. Lucas is also fantastic and has two fantastic arcs in the show, and is really the second most important character after Elizabeth.

That line falls flat to me and always has. If it was meant to be taken seriously, it should not be there. If it was meant to make the audience disapprove at the character spouting something so ignorant, then the narrative needs to do a better job of condemning it. I 100% support characters saying offensive or ignorant things and I think it can be a very powerful piece of characterization, but the narrative needs to somehow drive home the fact that the character is not correct. Yes, a little more forcefully than I'd ideally like, as there are still a large portion of the audience who will be nodding along and thinking she's right unless it's made very clear that she is not."

See, that's my thing. I get that characters say problematic things that express their flaws, and that's fine. But the way the show presents the line, and the way the audience reacted when I saw it (by laughing and nodding in agreement, as you said), shows that if Elizabeth was supposed to be portrayed as in the wrong there, then it wasn't made clear enough. 

[JudyDenmark]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 1:11pm

Two that always make me cringe now are:

"Met a guy in a class I was taking who you might say looked like Tom Cruise" (Last 5 Years)... I think it was meant to mean, "what a hunk" when it was written, but in the post-freakout scientology Tom Cruise era, I have a hard time seeing him as any kind of sex symbol now. (I didn't really think about it too hard until I was going to sing this song out of context and couldn't get past that line.)

And for a different reason, "Look, dear, they're beating a monkey! / I wonder why anyone should be beating a monkey?" in "Round and Round" in The Fantasticks. I'm sure it had a different meaning when it was written, but I remember doing the show in high school and none of us could get through that part without giggling. 

Also, like 90% of Big River makes me squirm, though I'm pretty sure that's the point. 

Posted: 2/20/18 at 1:13pm

There was a line in "I'm Outta Here" from GHOST about Whitney Houston that went, "And I (sung like I Will Always Love You) Could End up just like Whitney did...." she died after the cast recording and the line was changed for all subsequent shows.... 

[Rainah]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 1:39pm

seaweedjstubbs said: "^ Damn......if that offends you, I can't imagine what doesn't offend you. I'm a liberal black gay male and have never thought twice about that line."

My dude, this is a thread about jokes/lines that have gotten a little outdated with current events/sensibilities. I do think, had LMM written the show today instead of well over a decade ago, the line would not be there, and that it doesn't reflect current attitudes (Well, ideally). No one's coming at the show with pitchforks, but as a queer person it does make me wince every time. 

[Cape Twirl of Doom]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 3:29pm

Rainah said: "seaweedjstubbs said: "^ Damn......if that offends you, I can't imagine what doesn't offend you. I'm a liberal black gay male and have never thought twice about that line."

My dude, this is a thread about jokes/lines that have gotten a little outdated with current events/sensibilities. I do think, had LMM written the show today instead of well over a decade ago, the line would not be there, and that it doesn't reflect current attitudes (Well, ideally). No one's coming at the show with pitchforks, but as a queer person it does make me wince every time."

Please explain what is "outdated" about that line and how it in any way "doesn't reflect current attitudes"? Do you think if a woman walked in on her boyfriend cheating on her with a man she wouldn't be surprised? And people gossiping about it wouldn't be surprised? Who in the world is that supposed to offend?

[Elegance101]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 3:29pm

JudyDenmark said: "Met a guy in a class I was taking who you might say looked like Tom Cruise" (Last 5 Years)... I think it was meant to mean, "what a hunk" when it was written, but in the post-freakout scientology Tom Cruise era, I have a hard time seeing him asany kind of sex symbolnow. (I didn't really think about it too hard until I was going to sing this song out of context and couldn't get past that line.)"

That line has been changed in all recent versions (revival, movie, etc.) to "...with some very well-placed tattoos" I think JRB had a similar thought process, haha.

 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 3:40pm

ErikJ972 said: "Dave28282 said: "All I do is meeting persons.

I leave the color sorting to others.

It's just that for as long they are doing that they fail to look at the person. Which is a pity either way. No matter how much some of you on this board try to justify it."

Pretty sure that Dave28282 works at the Internet Research Agency in St. Petersburg."

Since when is equality and a balanced mind a Russian business interest?

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 3:44pm

It's not. But racism and poor command of the English language is!

[Dave28282]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 3:50pm

I definitely agree about the racism. That's why I commented on those one way race jokes in songs in this thread. You know, a weird way of trying to get even, doing to others what has been done to you because you feel you have the right now. Which I think is silly if you truly want equality. So you actually meant the people who try to justify it (one way of course) work at the Internet Research Agency in St. Petersburg. I have to agree. Corrupt as f***.

And how many languages do you speak? English is my 4th language.

Updated On: 2/20/18 at 03:50 PM

[JudyDenmark]

Posted: 2/20/18 at 4:52pm

Elegance101 said: "JudyDenmark said: "Met a guy in a class I was taking who you might say looked like Tom Cruise" (Last 5 Years)... I think it was meant to mean, "what a hunk" when it was written, but in the post-freakout scientology Tom Cruise era, I have a hard time seeing him asany kind of sex symbolnow. (I didn't really think about it too hard until I was going to sing this song out of context and couldn't get past that line.)"

That line has been changed in all recent versions (revival, movie, etc.) to "...with some very well-placed tattoos" I think JRB had a similar thought process, haha."

Ha! Amazing! TIL. I really don't perform any more... but if I ever decide to dust off my singing chops, good to know that this song is back on the table. :)