#151
Posted: 8/25/12 at 8:56am
I say the latter but I'm in the minority in the area I live!
Lack of English accents in Sweeney Todd - WTF? — Page 7
#152
Posted: 8/25/12 at 8:04pm
Do you actually mean "esplanaRd" as in "rhymes with yard"?
Because although Americans rarely use the word at all, if we do we pronounce as if it were (very roughly) pronounced in French: "esplanaHd", rhymes with god.
A quick google search shows the word used in the States mostly in the names of housing tracts and condo buildings, an arbitrary addition that is supposed to make suburbia sound fancy.
Because although Americans rarely use the word at all, if we do we pronounce as if it were (very roughly) pronounced in French: "esplanaHd", rhymes with god.
A quick google search shows the word used in the States mostly in the names of housing tracts and condo buildings, an arbitrary addition that is supposed to make suburbia sound fancy.
#153
Posted: 8/25/12 at 8:42pm
I watched the DVD last night, the first time I'd seen it since it was broadcast on PBS 30 years ago. I can certainly hear what posters (especially our British friends) are talking about.
Like so many Americans, my knowledge of British dialects consists mostly of Eliza-Doolittle-before and -after, though I was once in Northumberland, where I couldn't understand a single word anybody said.
But after watching the DVD I am more convinced than ever that some sort of decision was made as to how much linguistic authenticity Americans would tolerate in what was already nearly an opera. Angela and (particularly) Ken Jennings use what sounds like a Cockney rhythm at times without doing the full-on Eliza-Doolittle-before. Angela drops an H here or there, but doesn't do so consistently. (I don't mean the actress is "inconsistent"; I just mean I can't figure out what "rule" she is following.)
Lovett does say "Cor" instead of "God", and that's written into the lyric. Maybe one of our British posters can tell us what that says about her dialect.
Sondheim does rhyme "marine/clean" and "tastes of wherever it's been", as the Brits are wont to do, but Angela pronounces "been" as if it rhymes with "tin".
In general (and to my ear), performers use slightly broader vowel sounds and British-like rhythms when speaking, but everyone reverts to what I think of as "operetta diction" when singing.
The system seems to have worked for American ears. As I and others wrote above, none of this ever occurred to me before it was brought up here.
Like so many Americans, my knowledge of British dialects consists mostly of Eliza-Doolittle-before and -after, though I was once in Northumberland, where I couldn't understand a single word anybody said.
But after watching the DVD I am more convinced than ever that some sort of decision was made as to how much linguistic authenticity Americans would tolerate in what was already nearly an opera. Angela and (particularly) Ken Jennings use what sounds like a Cockney rhythm at times without doing the full-on Eliza-Doolittle-before. Angela drops an H here or there, but doesn't do so consistently. (I don't mean the actress is "inconsistent"; I just mean I can't figure out what "rule" she is following.)
Lovett does say "Cor" instead of "God", and that's written into the lyric. Maybe one of our British posters can tell us what that says about her dialect.
Sondheim does rhyme "marine/clean" and "tastes of wherever it's been", as the Brits are wont to do, but Angela pronounces "been" as if it rhymes with "tin".
In general (and to my ear), performers use slightly broader vowel sounds and British-like rhythms when speaking, but everyone reverts to what I think of as "operetta diction" when singing.
The system seems to have worked for American ears. As I and others wrote above, none of this ever occurred to me before it was brought up here.
Updated On: 8/25/12 at 08:42 PM
#154
Posted: 8/26/12 at 5:51am
Sondheim does rhyme "marine/clean" and "tastes of wherever it's been", as the Brits are wont to do, but Angela pronounces "been" as if it rhymes with "tin".
I tend to pronounce 'been' like 'bin' too, although depending on the sentence sometimes I probably say 'beeeeeen' too. I'm not sure whether that's a word that can be said in different ways (e.g. the word 'either' can be pronounced in different ways in Britain depending on who's speaking, as in 'eye-ther' or 'eee-ther') or whether the general British tendency is to say 'bin' with a short vowel sound while Americans say 'beeeeeen' with a long vowel sound. Or whether the pronunciation of that word can vary in both countries.
English must be a nightmare for non-natives to try and understand its pronunciation!
I tend to pronounce 'been' like 'bin' too, although depending on the sentence sometimes I probably say 'beeeeeen' too. I'm not sure whether that's a word that can be said in different ways (e.g. the word 'either' can be pronounced in different ways in Britain depending on who's speaking, as in 'eye-ther' or 'eee-ther') or whether the general British tendency is to say 'bin' with a short vowel sound while Americans say 'beeeeeen' with a long vowel sound. Or whether the pronunciation of that word can vary in both countries.
English must be a nightmare for non-natives to try and understand its pronunciation!
Updated On: 8/26/12 at 05:51 AM
#155
Posted: 8/26/12 at 7:41am
He rhymes "clerk" with "lark," because it's pronounced "clark" over there.
Just like the Fred & Ginger movie, "The Berkeleys of Broadway" (pronounced Barkleys).
It's all a charade ... or is that charaaahhhhd? or charayde?
This thread is a great homage to accents.
Or is that 'omahhj?
Or 'ommidge?
Or hommidge?
Just like the Fred & Ginger movie, "The Berkeleys of Broadway" (pronounced Barkleys).
It's all a charade ... or is that charaaahhhhd? or charayde?
This thread is a great homage to accents.
Or is that 'omahhj?
Or 'ommidge?
Or hommidge?
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Updated On: 8/26/12 at 07:41 AM
#156
Posted: 8/26/12 at 8:58am
Even though those who are truly mystified by the lack of accents in Sweeney Todd and question the talent of known talents are the epitome of cluelessness when it comes to theatre art to me, I will say that it has at least yielded a fine, informative discussion in the end.
I'm wary of anything relating to theatre and accents, after hearing/reading even highly educated people bitch and moan about the American casts of Les Miserables sounding "not right" or downright repulsive for not sporting Cockney accents [in a musical about French people], and then people fire back saying the British casts are stupid for utilizing Cockney and other regional accents [in a show about French people], you tend to expect threads like these to dissolve in a whole lot of stupid.
Hooray to BWW for beating the odds!
I'm wary of anything relating to theatre and accents, after hearing/reading even highly educated people bitch and moan about the American casts of Les Miserables sounding "not right" or downright repulsive for not sporting Cockney accents [in a musical about French people], and then people fire back saying the British casts are stupid for utilizing Cockney and other regional accents [in a show about French people], you tend to expect threads like these to dissolve in a whole lot of stupid.
Hooray to BWW for beating the odds!
Recreation of original John Cameron orchestration to "On My Own" by yours truly. Click player below to hear.
Updated On: 8/26/12 at 08:58 AM
#157
Posted: 8/26/12 at 9:24am
"Hooray to BWW for beating the odds!"
At least until you posted, and added more insults like "the epitome of cluelessness" to the thread. The lack of British accents amongst SOME actors in a play set in England, performed in an English-speaking country, is a fair question for consideration. What's been wrong with this thread is the "anyone who doesn't think like me is an idiot" comments.
At least until you posted, and added more insults like "the epitome of cluelessness" to the thread. The lack of British accents amongst SOME actors in a play set in England, performed in an English-speaking country, is a fair question for consideration. What's been wrong with this thread is the "anyone who doesn't think like me is an idiot" comments.
#158
Posted: 8/26/12 at 9:27am
'omahhj, thank you very much.
#159
Posted: 8/26/12 at 11:40am
"English must be a nightmare for non-natives to try and understand its pronunciation!"
And that's not even taking grammar into consideration, where the rules are only rules until they're not.
And that's not even taking grammar into consideration, where the rules are only rules until they're not.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#160
Posted: 8/26/12 at 1:42pm
"At least until you posted, and added more insults like "the epitome of cluelessness" to the thread. The lack of British accents amongst SOME actors in a play set in England, performed in an English-speaking country, is a fair question for consideration. What's been wrong with this thread is the "anyone who doesn't think like me is an idiot" comments."
LOL. And I meant that post as a compliment.
Dude, I blast myself with sarcastic jabs more often than anyone else on here. If I'm fair game, everyone, including my boss, the Pope, your mom, and the hag down the way are fair game, too.
LOL. And I meant that post as a compliment.
Dude, I blast myself with sarcastic jabs more often than anyone else on here. If I'm fair game, everyone, including my boss, the Pope, your mom, and the hag down the way are fair game, too.
Recreation of original John Cameron orchestration to "On My Own" by yours truly. Click player below to hear.
#161
Posted: 8/26/12 at 9:36pm
Scorpion, we certainly use both ee-ther and eye-ther (also knee-ther and nigh-there) over here. We even have a very famous Gerswhin song about it: "Let's Call the Whole Thing Off."
But I don't think any American nowadays pronounces "been" and "bean" as homophones, unless he has a heavy foreign accent. Been isn't always a precise rhyme for tin, but it's close.
But I don't think any American nowadays pronounces "been" and "bean" as homophones, unless he has a heavy foreign accent. Been isn't always a precise rhyme for tin, but it's close.
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