Les Mis vs. Sweeney- Page 2

[Holliwoodblonde]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 10:34am

I definitely think Sweeney is better, that score is one that never leaves you. I always get chills during Not While I'm around, and don't get me started on the whistle **grimaces**, when music has that much of an effect on you...

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 11:07am

Both are outstanding shows and I have seen both shows multiple times. (LES MIZ -8 and SWEENEY -10)

My choice would be SWEENEY.

SWEENEY tells a more offbeat story, one that could come across as a hoary old melodrama, but through exceptionally complex music and incredibly dense lyrics is transformed into a modern parable.

LES MIZ suffers a bit in translation. The lyrics are more simplistic and don't delve as much into character. The music is appropiately lush and stirring and adds much to the mood of the piece.

LES MIZ underscores one's belief in the good in all men. ("To love another person is to see the face of God") SWEENEY forces us to confront the darkness of our souls. ("To seek revenge may lead to hell/But Everyone does it though seldom as well/ as Sweeney..")

I am not a strongly religious person. I find LES MIZ uplifting but respond more to the black humour and intensity of SWEENEY.

Blue Wizard asks if SUNDAY isn't a better show than SWEENEY. Again comparing two different pieces. SWEENEY is more about plot while SUNDAY explores ideas. And while SUNDAY never fails to move me no matter how many times I see it live (4 times now) or on video (too many times to count), SWEENEY gets my vote as the best because of it's sweeping score, devilishly clever lyrics (which communicate story and character so well), and the fact that is does not have to be elaborately staged to work. Whereas SUNDAY requires a full re-creation of the Seurat painting. This is probably why we see fewer productions of SUNDAY.

[GovernorSlaton]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 12:27pm

The repetition in Les Miz drives me crazy (does I Dreamed a Dream really need to be played underneath every song?). Not really a difficult decision for me at all.

Attend the tale of Sweeney Todd....

[paradox_error]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 12:52pm

Gov! I'm shocked!

[sanda]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 12:59pm

Well, I don't know how to explain my idea.

Sweeney is a very smart and sophisticated show. Yet, it is not the best show.

The best shows are Fiddler, Gypsy, La Mancha and Les Miz, etc. The show that can move everyone, not only the picky theatre geek but everyone. IMO,Sweeney is too smart. When I watched the show, I felt that it sounded like "Look, see how smart, how sophisticated I am! Hail for this gem."
Well, of course it deserves the hail, yet, it lacks the genuineness, the down-to-earth spirit.

It is not the tragedy that I don't buy. I enjoy it a lot. However, the more I watch or read or listen to art works, the more I feel the best works should be the one which not only moves you or surprise you but in the end, give you something to be joyful for. Sweeney is too depressing, well, in a very smart way, but still low its gere.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:01pm

"My point is the best works, no matter music, novel or theatre, should not be too dark and depressing. It should be noble and hopeful."


I'm still missing something here. I would hardly say that Fiddler is hopeful...The others are nowhere near uplifting...

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:01pm

Sweeney and Les Miz are both theatrical masterpeices. I dont think I can compare.

[sanda]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:05pm

I never thought Fiddler as depressing. It is not the tragedy which makes Fiddler great. It is the opitimitism, the appreciation for simple life and the deep love of family which makes it a great show.

There is not a single light in Sweeney. It is too cynical. Sure, Cynic is cool.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:07pm

The ending of Fiddler is heartbreaking! Especially because all the hope they have is false hope.

The only people to survive WWII would be the lucky few that went to America. Those that went to Warsaw, Krakow etc had a very glim future.

That ending makes me cry.

I think Sweeney is dark, but in no way is it depressing. It's a thriller, it's not meant to be light...

[melissa errico fan]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:09pm

SWEENEY TODD is my second favorite musical of all-time (I like A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC slightly more). It is a perfect score that is incredibly beautiful, haunting, gruesome, sharp, and moving. I do enjoy LES MIZ, for the most part (the original London cast recording with Patti LuPone as Fantine is amazing). I don't think that it merited a 16 year run on Broadway. All in all, I'd take SWEENEY any day, no competition.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:13pm

I'm sorry happy theatre doesn't make good theatre. That thought is kind of astounding to me. It's not theatre's job to make everyone happy. I think it does that many many many times, but theatre's job is to present the human condition. The good, the bad, the ugly. There are parts of humans that are wonderful and joyous. Sweeney happens to be a show that expresses what is dark and vengeful about humans. I think the dark stuff is infinately more interesting than the lollipop and cotton-candy happy stuff. As humans in everyday life, people fake that I'm happy, hopeful and I love you attitude. You can't fake revenge. That's what I want to see. I want to see how people deal with that an overcome that. I mean to say that theatre should be hopeful and look up to something is to discredit half of Shakespear's work, most of Miller's work, and most great playwrights in the world.

[sanda]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:14pm

Yes, they lost their home. Just like almost everyone died in Les Miz. Don Quixote died in La Mancha.

But there is always hope there. Tevye blessed his Chava, Marius and Cossette got bless from heaven, Cervantes faced his judgement with courage. That is called the hope.

In Sweeney, no one is hopeful. Anthony and Johanna maybe , but they almost have nothing to do in the end.
Updated On: 4/3/05 at 01:14 PM

[melissa errico fan]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:20pm

Jazzy, I could kiss you.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:20pm

My vote is for Sweeny, Sweeny, Sweeny, SWEEEEEEEENYYYYYYYY!

[sanda]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:22pm

I must point out that HOPE and JOY don't equal to " the lollipop and cotton-candy happy stuff".

To me, the best representation of HOPE and JOY is Mozart. That is what I call the great work. A lot of people love Tchaikovsky, but I feel his works sometimes too depressing.

If someone like tragedy, or evil part of human being. That is alright. I enjoy this kind too. But I can never put a dark, gloomy work in the best gere no matter how smart it is.

Well, in the end it is a persoanl taste, just like yours.




Updated On: 4/3/05 at 01:22 PM

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:26pm

So what is Shakespear? People call him the greatest playwright ever. What of Romeo and Juliet, Julius Caesar, Richard III, just the whole tragedy canon of his. I mean if you don't like tragedy I don't have a problem with that at all. I mean yes personal taste. But to say that tragedy can't be put in the best of theatrical masterpieces doesn't seem fair or right.

[sanda]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:31pm

Well, sorry that my poor writing skill causes a lot of confusion.

I don't mean tragedy is not great. Les Miz is a tragedy. Don't you agree?

What I don't like in Sweeney is its cynicism, its showing of how smart it is. It traps and jokes the basic morality of human being. Well, that is talented, bold and creative. I praise it for that. But please forgive a person who after many years still dare not to believe or respect nothing.
Updated On: 4/3/05 at 01:31 PM

[FosseBoi]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:37pm

I always thought that SWEENY was better. I've NEVER been able to get into LES MIS.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:40pm

I did a list of my top 20 musicals.

Les Mis came twentieth.

Sweeney came second.

[melissa errico fan]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:45pm

LES MIZ is #38 on my list of top 50 musicals. SWEENEY is #2.

[paradox_error]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:48pm

I have a top 50 too...

I do rather like Les Mis, if not just for the score.

The only non-Sondheim show in my Top Ten is Cabaret.

[sanda]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:49pm

Mine:
Les Miz
Man of La Mancha
Fiddler
Gypsy
Camelot
Jesus Christ Superstar
Chess
Sound of Music
The Secret Garden


Updated On: 4/3/05 at 01:49 PM

[melissa errico fan]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:51pm

My Top Ten

1. A Little Night Music
2. Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
3. Sunday in the Park with George (pattern, anyone?)
4. Kiss Me, Kate
5. Passion
6. Company
7. Pal Joey
8. Follies
9. Merrily We Roll Along
10. Cabaret

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 1:54pm

Sandra, for me the issue wasn't so much Sweeney vs Les miz, it was hopeful verses no hope. I don't take issue with you not liking Sweeney(although it's not written at all to show anyone how smart they are). I take issue with the fact that the end has to be hopeful, even if it's a tragedy. Some endings are tragic in theatre and life. Loosing a one's family and war etc. Now I just think that the best theatre is the opposite. I mean Romeo and juliet is theatre 101. Everyone knows this play and its ending is hardly hopeful. It's the same with Hamlet, who sort of has a Sweeney like anger and wants revenge. I think what your missing in Sweeney is a fable about how one man's revenge destroys him. Sweeney is about revenge. I think it's written the way it is becuase of the way Sondheim's mind works. He finds it easier to write like this, than to write a 32 bar song. He found Merrily rediculously hard to write. He's not saying look how smart I am. He's saying this is how it should be written. This is how it comes out to me. Sondheim's work isn't TRYING to be smart. It just IS.
Updated On: 4/3/05 at 01:54 PM

[paradox_error]

Posted: 4/3/05 at 2:00pm

My Top Ten, as of now:

1. Sunday in the Park With George
2. Sweeney Todd
3. West Side Story
4. Pacific Overtures
5. Cabaret
6. Gypsy
7. Follies
8. Into the Woods
9. Passion
10. Company

(with Merrily, Anyone Can Whistle, Night Music, Forum and Assassins all coming close)

Wow, looking at that list I think Les Mis might have dropped considerably in the rankings. I wrote the top 20 about 6 months ago, and I don't think Les Mis would still be there.

I far prefer shows like Kiss Me, Kate; Carousel; My Fair Lady; Hello, Dolly; Little Shop of Horrors etc.