N2N Question *SPOILER*- Page 2

[jordangirl]

Posted: 7/16/09 at 7:42am

Fairly sure it's Diana who says "I don't remember ever hearing you say his name". (I guess the possibility exists that Alice blanked on the line one night and Aaron or Kyle ad libbed to cover/cue her and make the whole "what was his name" musical chase make sense. But it's Diana's line.)

[Katurian2]

Posted: 7/16/09 at 8:49am

I agree with Dan being able to see Gabe the whole time, and just denying that h e was really there. I got that from the above mentioned moment- where he walks up the stairs and turns around, and also from the staging of "I Am the One." You don't really see it in the Tony staging of the song, but in the show, Dan seems semi-aggressive of blocking Gabe off from Diana. There are a few moments where he seemed to really be reacting to Gabe standing there- physically about to shove him away.

[jordangirl]

Posted: 7/16/09 at 8:53am

All of this brings up the question of is Gabe really a delusion or hallucination...or is he a ghost/presence of some sort. I've more than once seen the term "haunting" used to describe him and his actions, and the more I think about it, it does make sense... Diana just chooses to acknowledge his presence while Dan refuses to until Diana leaves.

[GatorNY]

Posted: 7/16/09 at 9:00am

Isn't the first line that Gabe sings during I AM THE ONE..."Hey Dad, it's me.... Why can't you see?"
It took me 4 viewings and countless listenings to the cast recordings to realize that Gabe is singing this to Dan.
Of course this doesn't answer the question about the reprise.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/16/09 at 9:13am

But if Gabe is actually a ghost...then neither of them have any mental issues whatsoever.

For me, Dan "sees" Gabe only in his mind and thoughts, while Diana hallucinated.

[Cape Twirl of Doom]

Posted: 7/16/09 at 10:11am

For me, Dan "sees" Gabe only in his mind and thoughts, while Diana hallucinated.

Right. You don't "catch" mental illness & delusions. It's extremely hard to believe that Dan suddenly started suffering from the same condition as Diana.

[jordangirl]

Posted: 7/16/09 at 10:21am

But if Gabe is actually a ghost...then neither of them have any mental issues whatsoever.

Actually there are people who say that seeing ghosts IS in fact a mental issue. Right up there with hearing voices. It's just another way to look at things.

Diana CLEARLY still has other things going on besides seeing Gabe though, so yes, she DOES still have "mental issues". (And one can argue that even if Dan doesn't have "issues" in the same sense that Diana does, he definitely still has grieving to do and emotions and things to sort out.)

[heo1128]

Posted: 7/16/09 at 11:49am

I think if Gabe were a ghost, then Natalie would be able to see him. It's very clear that she doesn't see him, for example in Just Another Day when Natalie walks past him and he says "Morning, sunshine". I think it's more like Gabe is haunting Diana's mind than he's haunting their house.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/16/09 at 12:05pm

Excellent point, Heo.

In a work of FICTION, if he IS a ghost, then we'd be exploring an entirely different story.

[jordangirl]

Posted: 7/16/09 at 12:28pm

That would really depend on if Gabe ALLOWED Natalie to see him and if she was open to it. Actually the fact that she doesn't isn't really that big of an issue because he IS nothing more than someone she's only heard about. She has nothing to grieve or let go of because she never knew him. (And so many people have said that Dan chooses not to see him...isn't it possible that Natalie ALSO chooses not to see him? I mean, if you accept that one character actively chooses not to see, why can't you accept that another would do the same thing.) IMHO, when he puts Diana's purse forward when Natalie decides to go the self-medicating route, his presence (felt, acknowledged, or whatever) IS in fact influencing her. If it was just Natalie deciding it on her own, why stage it so that Gabe puts the purse in her view?

Whether he's a ghost or not really doesn't affect the story THAT much. With or without seeing him, Diana is bipolar and Dan is in denial (of his own grief, or Diana's illness or the extent of it). The only thing about Gabe that would make it a completely different story would be if he NEVER existed (or I guess if he had lived for a while longer and died at an older age.)

It's just another way of looking at things.

[DefyGravity777]

Posted: 7/16/09 at 6:52pm

Diana suffers from delusional episodes. That's the reason that she "sees and talks" to Gabe.

Dan only allows himself to "feel" Gabe at the end because Diana has left him and he needs to start healing.

That's my take on it.

Posted: 7/17/09 at 9:05am

I agree that Dan never physically saw Gabe, and was now only confronting the memory of the son for whom he was never able to fully grieve.

However, I also think that the Gabe singing during the reprise is the "good" Gabe, or more accurately the real Gabe. Until this point, Gabe had only been a representation of Diane's illness. He was not their son, he was a demon, who did not want Diane to heal, and lead her to attempt suicide. But now, it feels like this is the true Gabe, not a demon or a spirit, just a prescense of love.
It might be only me, but when he sings to Dan "Because I'm holding on and I won't let go," it just seemed to be loving and comforting, a son simply being their for his father. As opposed to earlier in the show when he sang that line to Diane, and you just felt the disease winning. But now at last, this is the real memory of Gabe; their son, who died, but who still remains in their hearts giving them strength, and who Dan can finally draw comfort from. Cheesy, I know, but that's the way I see it.

[GatorNY]

Posted: 7/17/09 at 2:06pm

Wow...Mr Shadow, that was beautifully stated... i got chills when I read what you wrote.

[Elphaba3]

Posted: 7/17/09 at 5:15pm

SilentShadow, that's beautiful. I love that interpretation.

Posted: 7/17/09 at 6:13pm

Thanks :). It wasn't until I thought of it that way that I was able to find any... closure, I guess, about Dan and Gabe. You know what direction Natalie and Alice are heading in, but I always felt so uneasy about Dan's future. But now I kind of believe they'll be all right.

Gosh, say what you will about the it, but I don't think I've ever seen a show that has left me so emotionally invested in the characters.

[heo1128]

Posted: 7/17/09 at 6:35pm

^"I don't think I've ever seen a show that has left me so emotionally invested in the characters."

Completely agree! Great point about the different Gabes. Also, I think Dan needed that comforting, and as Gabe says "I am what you want me to be".

[Elphaba3]

Posted: 7/17/09 at 7:06pm

"Gosh, say what you will about the it, but I don't think I've ever seen a show that has left me so emotionally invested in the characters."

Same here. One of the biggest reasons I keep listening to it is because each time I do, I interpret it a little differently and discover more layers to the characters. I love that there's no right answer. I just go with whatever interpretation works for me at the time, and it seems that the actors (especially Alice and Bobby) do that do. I'm so glad they're keeping it fresh and real.

[bandit964]

Posted: 7/18/09 at 2:11am

TimesSquareRegular: I too remembered him saying something like, "just say my name and it will all be over" (or something to that nature) And in the end, SPOILER: the dad says his name and the son runs offstage. That just seemed like way to simple of a solution to the problem of the show. Did anyone else feel thar way?

[Katurian2]

Posted: 7/18/09 at 8:35am

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No- it was a symbolic gesture. Obviously what the character was going through was far more complicated than just saying a name, but since it was an internal struggle, that was the most effective way to manifest it for the audience.

[Elphaba3]

Posted: 7/18/09 at 5:36pm

I don't think anyone's problems are close to being over when the show ends, but they've all taken the necessary steps in order to start the healing process.

[moowithme85]

Posted: 7/18/09 at 6:54pm

I agree, I've never felt more emotionally invested in characters than I do with these. There is just so much uncertainty in the end of the show that it's almost uncomfortable...but I think that's what makes it such an amazing show - I'm GLAD that I'm worried about these characters weeks after seeing it.

I chose to believe that Dan does see Gabe throughout the show, although, not to the crippling extent that Diana sees him. I realize that you can't "catch" mental illness, but I do think it can affect your way of thinking if you're dealing with someone who is sick. I think the strain Dan is facing dealing with the loss of his son and with Diana's disorder clearly created problems of his own. And "seeing" Gabe is that problem brought to life.

[alightinthedark23]

Posted: 7/18/09 at 6:58pm

I agree as well that it is very easy to get emotionally invested in the characters and the show is written beautifully at the end. The audience is left with a feeling of hope for the family. Everytime I see the show, I interpret "I am the one reprise" differently.