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#1

NY Post Article about WSS

This article from the NY Post was an interesting read. Thoughts?

https://nypost.com/2021/06/30/steven-spielbergs-west-side-story-adaptation-is-going-to-get-him-canceled/

(On my phone...sorry if it's not clickable...ctrl c/ctrl v)

Updated On: 7/1/21 at 02:52 PM

#3

Will Steven Spielberg get

Please, for the love of god, can we stop with these clickbait-y “___ cancelled?” headlines/threads!!

All it does is get people riled up in indignation about how evil cancel culture is, when in fact, the person in question ISN’T EVEN BEING “CANCELLED.” Someone just wrote a clickbait header proposing that they MIGHT be cancelled. And their evidence? The “cancellation” of LMM over In the Heights. But guess what? LMM wasn’t cancelled, he was criticized.


Every time someone writes something like this, it just creates more confusion about the difference between “cancel culture” and legitimate criticism or backlash. And continues to perpetuate the myth that every person subject to even the smallest controversy is being indiscriminately “cancelled” by the “woke mob.” Note that it is almost never the "woke mob" who are prosing that someone be "cancelled" - it's usually the other side who are the first to use that word, because they assume that any backlash must mean that someone is cancelled

We can expect bs like this from a garbage publication like the post, but with all due respect, fashionguru_23, thread titles like this only exacerbate the problem by legitimizing this clickbait-y fear mongering.

Updated On: 7/1/21 at 03:12 PM

#4

Will Steven Spielberg get

Feel like this is kind of a nothing article.

Highly doubt he will get cancelled and the people that tried to “cancel” In The Heights were unsuccessful.
#5

Will Steven Spielberg get

SouthernCakes said: "Highly doubt he will get cancelled and the people that tried to “cancel” In The Heights were unsuccessful."



Even using the phrase "unsuccessful" confuses the issue. They were not trying to cancel In the Heights. In the Heights was subject to criticism and backlash on specific grounds. There was no movement to get it pulled from theatres. There was no movement to remove Miranda, Chu, or Hudes from any of their future projects. Therefor, no one was trying to "cancel" it.

(Quick disclaimer/pre-emptive remark: if one were to scroll through Twitter, I don't doubt that SOMEONE, maybe even multiple people, have proposed pulling the movie or destroying the careers of those involved. The internet is a wild and diverse place. Surely someone somewhere holds this opinion. So please do not come at me with "I read a Tweet that said LMM should be cancelled" because that's very different from there being a widespread movement to put pressure on the powers that be)

#6

Will Steven Spielberg get

I've followed the In the Heights saga and even the harshest criticism of the film hasn't proposed that the movie be pulled or that no one see the current or future work of its creators. (The most severe backlash was actually published in the Washington Post and demanded a sort of further mea culpa from Miranda admitting he didn't really want to make transformative art but just sought to advance his career.)

Most of the critiques I've seen, and a lot of it has been personal from Afro-Latino writers, expressed disappointment in the movie for failing to properly represent Washington Heights and going from there to criticize the movie for casting light-skinned Latinos in all the lead roles. Writers discussed colorism in the media, including on telenovelas and in Spanish-language films, and in Latinidad in general.

A lot of the critics who were very upset about colorism actually liked a lot of things about the movie, and their reason for being disappointed was that they thought it was a lost opportunity.

In the Heights wasn't 'canceled.' To my knowledge, there wasn't any effort to try to cancel it. The movie disappointed at the box office and will disappear soon from theaters, but that's because not enough people wanted to see an original musical with no stars as the country is trying to emerge from a pandemic. (The box office successes have been sequels and genre films.) The colorism controversy only moved beyond Twitter and sites like this after its first disappointing weekend. Aside from the bad publicity, I don't think the controversy mattered at all to its box office performance, or at best only on the margins. That cake was already baked after the first weekend.

Needless to say, West Side Story - as an even higher-profile project - will draw plenty of attention and critical scrutiny too - both from the cultural left who will note the whiteness of its creators when talking about things they don't like about the remake and from the right who will blast any attempts to change things about the original film as insufferably "woke."

There are times when purity tests go too far in my view. But West Side Story is a major film based on another famous film based on a famous, groundbreaking Broadway musical. Every time there's a major stage revival, people jump all over whatever they don't like. Some of it gets a little old, but a lot of criticism is actually made in good faith and raises issues that are worth considering.

The Post column isn't that.

#7

Will Steven Spielberg get

The New York Post continues its 93,869-day streak of having published nothing of value.

#9

Will Steven Spielberg get

What's annoying is that as stupid as his comments are, Twitter will probably prove him right when the movie comes out. So really he's just putting it out there as "I told ya so!"




"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008
#10

Will Steven Spielberg get

The Post is a right-wing rag designed to confirm all the fears conservative suburbanites have of New York.


"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#11

Will Steven Spielberg get

The Post. Lolz. Who would ever take that rag seriously?

The movie disappointed at the box office and will disappear soon from theaters, but that's because not enough people wanted to see an original musical with no stars as the country is trying to emerge from a pandemic.

Incorrect. It's called HBO Max.

#12

Will Steven Spielberg get

Sutton Ross said: "The Post. Lolz. Who would ever take that rag seriously?

The movie disappointed at the box office and will disappear soon from theaters, but that's because not enough people wanted to see an original musical with no stars as the country is trying to emerge from a pandemic.

Incorrect. It's called HBO Max.
"

To be fair, the ITH thread has a lot of similar comments.

And according to reports, it underperformed on HBO Max also.




"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008
#13

Will Steven Spielberg get

Sutton Ross said: "The Post. Lolz. Who would ever take that rag seriously?

The movie disappointed at the box office and will disappear soon from theaters, but that's because not enough people wanted to see an original musical with no stars as the country is trying to emerge from a pandemic.

Incorrect. It's called HBO Max.
"

If you are suggesting that HBO drained theater attendance to a meaningful extent, that's incorrect. First, as noted by taboo, ITH underperformed on HBO. Second, even if you transfer the HMO viewership to theater seats, it STILL underperformed in theaters. That said, the reason given in what you quote is based on a logical fallacy and thus is BS.

#14

Will Steven Spielberg get

Borstalboy said: "Only skimmed through it. Typical NY Post white supremacist drivel."

As a Jew, this is insulting, left-wing, anti-semitic garbage, a newspaper that is written mainly by Jewish writers and slightly conservative, by screaming about white supremacy, you actually soften what that ideology actually is, it is an ideology set out to kill Jews, white supremacists are out to get Jews, the NY Post, a slightly conservative paper with Jewish conservative writers is not white supremacist. You are an anti semite

#15

Will Steven Spielberg get

BroadwayPatriot said: "As a Jew, this is insulting, left-wing, anti-semitic garbage, a newspaper that is written mainly by Jewish writers and slightly conservative, by screaming about white supremacy, you actually soften what that ideology actually is, it is an ideology set out to kill Jews, white supremacists are out to get Jews, the NY Post, a slightly conservative paper with Jewish conservative writers is not white supremacist. You are an anti semite"



^For the record, the left-wing of this country is generally not in favor of killing Jews either. Your post reads very left-wing to me, and yet you use left-wing as an insult. Not sure I follow.

I'm Jewish as well - I think your points are valid, and it's probably wrong to label them as white-supremicists.

But this is a tricky conversation because true White-Supremicist individuals are, indeed, also generally anti-Semitic. And yet white Jews in this country can also benefit from white privilege, and in the process, are also capable of perpetuating the systemic white supremacy baked into our society. And this can even be said of anyone in any marginalized group: not all members of a marginalized group act in the best interest of that group. Some are perfectly happy to support systems and institutions that hurt their people, so long as it benefits them individually. This can be seen throughout history as well as in modern day.

Again, I agree that it's probably extreme and inappropriate to accuse any of the individuals at the post of being actual White Supremicists. But to use this article as an example: fear-mongering about cancel culture is a method used by racist people (and many other "-ist" people) to deflect criticism and avoid accountability for their behavior, thus allowing them to justify continuing to say and do racist things. This is one of many methods that the right is using to uphold systemic racism, which is inextricably tied to the white supremacist values upon which these systems were built. So in that sense, this sort of "journalism" can indirectly contribute to systemic white supremacy, even if the people running it are Jewish.

#16

Will Steven Spielberg get

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that this person is not interested in a good-faith discussion, JBroadway.


"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#17

Will Steven Spielberg get

I don't call The Post white supremacist because of their apparently all-Jewish staff. I call them that because I'm familiar with their racist, reactionary drivel. Clearer?

The NY Post's white supremacism is so thorough, it has it's own "Accusations of Racism" segment on their Wikipedia page.


"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.” ~ Muhammad Ali

Updated On: 7/2/21 at 04:11 PM

#18

Will Steven Spielberg get


If you are suggesting that HBO drained theater attendance toa meaningful extent, that's incorrect. First, as noted by taboo, ITH underperformed on HBO. Second, even if you transfer the HMO viewership to theater seats, it STILL underperformed in theaters. That said, the reason given in what you quote is based on a logical fallacy and thus is BS."

Nope. HBO Max doesn't report their numbers, so it's allll speculation. It did just fine for a movie musical which is never a box office smash. So, your statement is all BS. Period. Have a great weekend! Will Steven Spielberg get

#19

Will Steven Spielberg get

Borstalboy said: "I don't call The Post white supremacist because of their apparently all-Jewish staff. I call them that because I'm familiar with their racist, reactionary drivel. Clearer?

The NY Post's white supremacismis so thorough, it has it's own "Accusations of Racism" segment on their Wikipedia page.
"

Correct. You have a great weekend too!

#20

Will Steven Spielberg get

Borstalboy said: "I don't call The Post white supremacist because of their apparently all-Jewish staff. I call them that because I'm familiar with their racist, reactionary drivel. Clearer?

The NY Post's white supremacismis so thorough, it has it's own "Accusations of Racism" segment on their Wikipedia page.
"

Give me one example of White supremacy in the NY Post. Give me one example where the editorial board supported any form of that particular ideology. The Post is mildly conservative, that is all, the issue is in your myopic world anyone to the right of Chairman Mao or Pol Pot in a white supremacist. !!

#21

Will Steven Spielberg get

Borstalboy said: "Your brain is broken, sweetness. Change your diaper.



"

No silly goose, I understand the ideology of white supremacy, I read everything, the NY post is similar to the way liberals used to sound in the 70's before the left all became Maoists. This is the reality. The post is actually "liberal" by yesterday's standards.

#22

Will Steven Spielberg get

JBroadway said: "BroadwayPatriot said: "As a Jew, this is insulting, left-wing, anti-semitic garbage, a newspaper that is written mainly by Jewish writers and slightly conservative, by screaming about white supremacy, you actually soften what that ideology actually is, it is an ideology set out to kill Jews, white supremacists are out to get Jews, the NY Post, a slightly conservative paper with Jewish conservative writers is not white supremacist. You are an anti semite"



^For the record, the left-wing of this country is generally not in favor of killing Jews either. Your post reads very left-wing to me, and yet you use left-wing as an insult. Not sure I follow.

I'm Jewish as well -I think your points are valid, and it's probably wrong to label them as white-supremicists.

But this is a tricky conversation because true White-Supremicist individuals are, indeed, also generally anti-Semitic.And yet white Jews in this countrycan also benefit from white privilege, and in the process, are also capable of perpetuating thesystemic white supremacy baked into our society. And this can even be said of anyone in any marginalized group: not all members of a marginalized group act in the best interest of that group. Some are perfectly happy to support systems and institutions that hurt their people, so long as it benefits them individually. This can be seen throughout history as well asin modern day.

Again, I agree that it's probably extreme and inappropriateto accuse any of the individuals at the post of being actual White Supremicists. But to use this article as an example: fear-mongering about cancel culture is a methodused by racist people (and many other "-ist" people) to deflect criticism and avoid accountability for their behavior, thus allowing them to justify continuing to say and do racist things. This is one of many methods that the right is using to uphold systemic racism, which is inextricably tied to the white supremacist values upon which these systems were built. Soin thatsense, this sort of "journalism" can indirectly contribute to systemic white supremacy, even if the people running it are Jewish.
"

It seems obvious to me, the fringe right may be obsessed with race.... however... the left's only issue is race, race, race, race. Judging by the way the left speak, you would think there never was a civil rights movement, there never was affirmative action, nothing. In the world of the leftist, POC do not own property, POC don't have any wealth, POC don't run businesses, POC have never held office, POC have had no opportunities in America... in your world, nothing has changed since the 1950s.... look I know this might hurt your feelings, those days are over, POC have never been more successful in America, and every year things get better and better, in fact, people POC risk their lives to come to this country. The left's view on America is grim, depressing, and fictional. Most POC would actually agree with me, I know because I live in the Bronx, I'm a minority in the area I live- and I talk to my Dominican and black neighbors, and none of them look at America in the pessimistic and hateful way, the average white leftist does.. You guys live in a complete disconnect from reality.

and White Supremacy ideology is a belief which strictly focuses on Jews, where Jews are blamed for everything wrong in the world. This movement is nothing like the KKK of the past, it's not even about POC any longer, it is 100% about Jews, this is why I get pissed when people compare mainline conservatives and libertarians to white supremacists. Conservatives and libertarians are pro-Jewish for the most part, white supremacy ideology believe Jews run the entire world in a Zionist cabal, what they believe is closer to congresswoman Ilan Omar than conservatism. It is an obscure ideology, which if you want, you can find online, read for yourself what they are all about, and it's nothing like the NY Post editorial page. The tree of life shooter in Pittsburgh, subscribed to the Zionists rule the world ideology, he was not a mainline conservative, that you would find in the NY post.

#23

Will Steven Spielberg get

BroadwayPatriot said: “it’s 100% about Jews.”


This is blatantly incorrect. You raised some valid points initially about the difference between casual offensiveness and white supremacy, but with this remark, you’ve ended all credibility of this exchange. That is a sad delusion. I beg you to do some research on this matter. I’ll only add 1 more thing before I stop engaging with you:

It’s not that the left doesn’t acknowledge progress, it’s that we just know that there is more work to be done, and we don’t accept that people use progress as an excuse to be done moving forward. In the Civil Rights movement, people like you said that Black people should just be happy they weren’t enslaved anymore. Things have gotten better for POC because activists have fought for that improvement. So activists continue to fight for more improvement where it’s needed. And if you do not acknowledge that more work is needed, you are part of the problem. Again, I beg you to do some research.
#24

Will Steven Spielberg get

BroadwayPatriot said: "Give me one example of White supremacy in the NY Post. Give me one example where the editorial board supported any form of that particular ideology. "

Easy. Trump is a white supremacist. They supported Trump. One cannot support Trump and not support white supremacy.

PS: The Post is not "mildly" conservative. That's absurd. No one is buying what you are selling.

#25

Will Steven Spielberg get

There is literally no current definition of white supremacy that limits its scope to being solely anti-Semitic. One only need actually look at the phrase "white supremacy" to know that is not the case. To re-define it in such a way is a convenient sidestep to absolve yourself of your associations, not to mention a (pun unintended) whitewash .


"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

Updated On: 7/2/21 at 08:34 PM

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